Are these players active since 2001 future Hall of Famers?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ashley Seymour, Aug 7, 2002.

  1. Ashley Seymour

    Ashley Seymour Supporting Actor

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    Here is a list of players who have a shot at the Baseball Hall of Fame.
    Who shouldn’t go? Who is missing?

    Retired since 2000.
    Sure Bets
    Tony Gwynn
    Mark McGuire
    Cal Ripkin
    How come Ricky didn’t retire last year too? What and share the spotlight with these three? Ricky looks to be all alone in the year he is eligible.

    Active over 15 years
    Prohibitive Favorites

    Barry Bonds
    Tom Glavine
    Ricky Henderson
    Greg Maddox

    Potential for the Hall
    David Cone
    David Justice
    Fred McGriff
    Tim Rains

    Active 10-14 years – On a pace for the Hall
    Roberto Alomar
    Jeff Bagwell
    Craig Biggio
    Ken Griffey Jr.
    Randy Johnson
    Jeff Kent
    Pedro Martinez
    Mike Mussina
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Mike Piazza
    Ivan Rodriguez
    Curt Schilling
    Sammy Sosa
    Frank Thomas
    Robin Ventura
    Larry Walker

    Active 5-9 years - On a pace for the Hall
    Nomar Garciapara
    Jason Giambi
    Vladimir Guerrero
    Todd Helton
    Trevor Hoffman
    Derek Jeter
    Andruw Jones
    Chipper Jones
    Andy Pettitte
    Mariano Rivera
    Alex Rodriguez

    4 years and less
    Interesting to contemplate
    Lance Berkman
    Alfonso Soriano
    Kerry Woods

    I bet not
    Ichiro Suzuki
     
  2. Andrew_Sch

    Andrew_Sch Cinematographer

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    I wouldn't count Ichiro out, not at all.
     
  3. John Thomas

    John Thomas Cinematographer

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    To narrow the scope for a bit, how's this: the players that are in the twilight of their career are the focus. (I don't want to steal the thread, just figured it would garner more specific conversation) Here's the list that Ashley came up with (and links to ESPN.com with their career stats)
    David Cone David Justice Fred McGriff Tim Raines
    To predict what these players will do in the years to come isn't an exact science but I'd say that David Justice is iffy. So far, he's right around 300 HR and 1000 RBI. Maybe he could make it on his numerous post-season appearances? Though, his best season is probably 2000, where he was traded from the Indians to the Yankees, so his potential numbers could be much, much better than I expect. Other neat factoids that could go for his push into the HoF are his NL RoY and ALCS MVP.
     
  4. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    Not much to add, but I have to say that I enjoyed the match-up between Barry Bonds and Kerry Woods in the 3rd inning last night when Woods challenged Bonds (going for home run #600) with high heat 97mph and then dropped a kneebuckling curveball on the outside corner to punch out Bonds. I think that's says a lot about Woods' mental make-up and staying within in his game and challenging Bonds to try and get that homer on his best stuff.

    Is David Cone HoF material? I don't know. I don't "automatically" think of him when the topic comes up, but he was very good when he was "on" but injuries did sideline him in the later years for him.

    Tim Raines is also iffy for me.

    Will McGriff's 14 season in a row of driving 80+ runs in/season be enough (he will get 15 seasons because he's within 1-2 RBI away from 80 currently)? Only Hank Aaron has a longer streak (17 seasons in a row).

    As far as locks for a HoF spot (possibly first ballot) IHMO:

    Roger Clemens - (288-148 W-L, 3.13 ERA, and 6 Cy Youngs help). If he comes back next season, he'll be shooting for 300 wins (a magical number for a HoF spot for pitchers, and 4000 strikeouts).

    Roberto Alomar - (.305 BA, over 2500 hits) perennial All-Star 2B (unless the press decide to play games with his selection)

    Greg Maddux - (268-149 W-L, 2.83 ERA, and 4 Cy Youngs).

    (not necessarily first ballot):

    Randy Johnson - among top 4 active pitchers in terms of games won (216-105 W-L, 3.10 ERA), and got plenty of strikeouts to go with the wins.

    Tom Glavine (238-138 W-L, 3.37 ERA).

    As much as I don't care for Rickey Henderson, he's got some pretty good career credentials as a lead-off hitter and basestealer.

    The rest of the list is also iffy with me. Even Schilling due to his career numbers 150W-105L (playing for the Phillies for all those years did not help), but I've love to have him on my pitching staff right now.
     
  5. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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    I would not consider Robin Ventura to be HOF material, especially considering third baseman seem to have a tough time getting in for whatever reason.

    I am continually amazed at the career Rafael Palmeiro is putting together. While you'd think he'd be declining, he seems to be gaining strength (much like Bonds, but to a lesser degree.) Since 1998, he is 4th in total homers!
     
  6. Mark Pfeiffer

    Mark Pfeiffer Screenwriter

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    I don't see Barry Larkin on that list. Will having a lower profile hurt him in the long run?
     
  7. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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    Without checking his stats, I'd expect Manny Ramirez to be on a pace for the HOF. Not so sure about Frank Thomas. I have my doubts as to Jeff Kent, Mike Mussina, David Justice. I'd say David Cone would fall just a little bit short of the HOF.
     
  8. Ashley Seymour

    Ashley Seymour Supporting Actor

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    When I put the list together I knew I missed a couple. I had Barry Larkin in my head but missed him when checking the Cin. team roster. Over 16 seasons he as credentials.

    A lot of these guys won't make it but that is why they were added. You always get comments like "How could you leave off Justice? He was integral to several pennant and WS teams!" Yes he has, but he will probably be on ballots for a number of years and the old timers committee will eventually take up his case.

    I wonder how many sports writers Bonds has pissed off that will keep him from getting the highest vote total since the original inductees?

    Oops, I thought Ichiro was 29, but he is 27. Or is he? Who knows, but two years production at this stage of career may be enough to get in the hall if he plays till 40. But he only walked 30 times last year so even with a .351 BA his OBA was only .381. But he did score 127 runs.

    Warren Spahn was 25 when he got out of WWII and won his first MLB game. Imagine his numbers with 3-4 more years playing. Maybe 40 more wins and over 400 career.
     
  9. JoshF

    JoshF Supporting Actor

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    Cone pitched a perfect game - isn't that pretty much an automatic shoe-in for the HOF?

    Or, better question: is there a pitcher who's pitched a perfect game and isn't in the HOF?
     
  10. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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  11. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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    I believe certain "one-time" events such as no-hitters are honored somewhere in the HOF without necessarily inducting the person responsible. (Of course, someone like Nolan Ryan who pitched seven of them is in based on that plus myriad other accomplishments.)

    Four years ago I would have thought Frank Thomas was an absolute shoe-in. He had a seven-year stretch of BA, HRs, RBI, and BBs that was unequaled by anyone other than Ruth and Williams. But the last few years have really made his selection questionable.
     
  12. Patrick_S

    Patrick_S Producer

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    From the list that was originally posted I would say the following are locks for the HOF.

    Tony Gwynn
    Mark McGuire
    Cal Ripkin
    Barry Bonds
    Ricky Henderson
    Greg Maddox
    Mike Piazza
    Sammy Sosa
    Randy Johnson
    Roger Clemens (Didn't see him on the list but he is a lock.)

    In fact the active players on the list would not have to play another game because their records are good enough right now for the HOF.

    There are others on the list that will certainly make it but these jumped out as ones that are locks.
     
  13. Patrick_S

    Patrick_S Producer

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    One more thing, although he is not on the original list Ryne Sandberg will be voted into the HOF.
     
  14. Bill J

    Bill J Producer

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    I think Ryne Sandberg, Andre Dawson, and Don Mattingly deserve to be voted into the Hall of Fame for 2003.
     
  15. Michael D. Bunting

    Michael D. Bunting Screenwriter

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    I'm a huge David Cone fan...I have met him 2 times and he is a really great guy and very friendly (at least from what I know first hand)....I'm hoping he can get into the hall of fame...but it may be a tough call. He's real close....
    Some of Coney's highlights:
    In 1994 Cone gave his hometown fans a season to remember. In mid-May he tossed 28 consecutive scoreless innings and set a Royals' record by hurling three consecutive shutouts -- a span during which he allowed just eight hits. His sixteen wins and 2.94 ERA at the time of the players strike helped him narrowly beat out the Yankees' Jimmy Key to win the AL Cy Young.
    On September 10th, 1991 he tied a National League record (since broken by Kerry Wood) when he fanned nineteen Philadelphia Phillies in a nine-inning game.
    July 18, 1999: Don Larsen, who hurled a perfect game for the New Yorkers in the 1956 World Series, throws out the first pitch prior to New York's game against the Expos. The Yankees then defeat the Expos, 6-0, as David Cone caps an emotional day by hurling a perfect game. Cone fans 10 batters as not a single Montreal player reaches base.
    After signing a three-year deal to stay with the Yankees, Cone opened the season with a 4-1 record and a league leading 2.03 ERA, but was bothered a strange numbness at the ends of his fingers. The initial diagnosis suggested a circulation problem, but further tests revealed an aneurysm of two arteries in his right shoulder, a potentially life-threatening problem. On May 10th doctors removed the arteries in his shoulder and replaced them with a vein graft from his left leg.
    After the surgery, no-one knew whether Cone -- one of the most durable starters in all of baseball -- would be able to pitch again that season, or possibly ever. Four months after his last start, however, Cone made a triumphant return. In the Oakland Coliseum on September 2nd, Cone exceeded everyone's expectations by throwing seven no-hit innings against an A's team which would hit 243 home runs that year. Wary of damaging his ace's arm, manager Joe Torre decided to remove Cone after just 85 pitches rather than let him try to complete the no-hitter. "If I leave him in and he throws 105 or 106 pitches and wakes up with a sore arm tomorrow, I'd never forgive myself for that," reasoned Torre. The previous June, Cone had also flirted with a no-hitter while pitching for the Blue Jays, losing it when Texas' Benji Gil singled with one out in the ninth.
    Like I said, I'm a pretty big Cone fan [​IMG]
     
  16. Joseph S

    Joseph S Cinematographer

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    Outside of Raines, Justice, Biggio, Kent, Cone, Thomas, Ventura, and Walker all of the active 10-14 years are locks to get in if they retired today. Add to the already locks Clemens, Larkin, Pedro, Rivera, and ARod. Mussina and Thomas would have been locks a few years ago, I think Mussina still has a ways to go before he screws up his chances like Thomas has. Though Thomas still has a very good shot.

    I would bet Ichiro makes it as well. His contributions outside of the MLB will be factored in considering what he has been able to do at the MLB level. They have had no problems selecting Negro league stars to the Hall in recent years and I don't see why Ichiro couldn't get in under vaguely semi-similar circumstances being a person of a race/country not normally considered by scouts/teams in the past.

    You don't need longevity to get in either. Solid 10 year stats that measure among the all time best can do it too. That is why Pedro is a lock today with 3 Cys and 3 wins short of 150. His career winning percentage is 3rd best in history, strikeouts per 9 is 2nd best in history, and career ERA 0.2 lower than Maddux and best among all active pitchers. Same goes for Mariano Rivera.

     
  17. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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  18. Phil L

    Phil L Supporting Actor

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    A couple of qualifications for me: In this offensive era I don't think 500 HR is the automatic entrance to the HOF, I think 600 is.

    I still think 3000 hits gets you in.

    I also think the HOF is for the great, not the very good.

    Barry Bonds- no doubt, first ballot
    Roger Clemens- first ballot but he might pitch longer than anyone suspects so it might take a while
    Tom Glavine- HOF
    Greg Maddux- HOF
    Ricky Henderson- HOF, first ballot, remember that by playing so long he has actually diluted his stats
    Randy Johnson-HOF, no question, I still think he was more intimidating with the mullet
    Pedro Martinez-HOF, if for nothing other than '99, the best year any pitcher has ever had
    Mike Pizzia- HOF, best hitting catcher ever, 1400th overall draft pick as a favor by his godfather- you never know
    Sammy Sosa- HOF

    David Cone- very good, not great, not enough wins, not enough strikeouts, only 2 20-win seasons, there is perfect game memorabilia at the HOF and that’s enough
    David Justice- very good, not great, every other year good numbers, injury prone, not a HOFamer
    Fred McGriff- just doesn't say HOF to me
    Tim Raines- same
    Curt Schilling- wasted a lot of time early in his career pitching poorly out of the bullpen, if he can keep up what he has done this year and eventually get to 200 wins he should make the HOF but not first ballot

    Roberto Alomar- HOFamer, probably not first ballot, people will remember all the different teams and spitting on Hirshbeck
    Jeff Bagwell- too early to say
    Craig Biggio- same
    Ken Griffey Jr- 3 years ago, absolutely, now I'm starting to question
    Jeff Kent- nope, anybody could put up good numbers in front of or behind Bonds
    Mike Mussina- if he continues with his career numbers, yes
    Rafael Palmeiro- his numbers are good but he just doesn't seem like a HOFamer
    Ivan Rodriguez-HOF
    Frank Thomas- if he can get back to his career numbers then his stats are good enough, it depends on whether they'll vote in a full time DH
    Robin Ventura- nope
    Larry Walker- HOF

    Manny- on pace, DH question
    Nomar- on pace if he stays healthy
    Jason Giambi- on pace, the DH question in future years
    Vlad Guerero- on pace
    Todd Helton- great player, not a HOF, Coors field inflated numbers
    Jeter- HOF but he'll make it through 3000 hits and the post-season, he isn't arod and he isn't Ozzie Smith
    Andruw Jones- HOF best centerfielder ever
    Chipper Jones- as a 3B yes, as an OF maybe not
    Andy Pettite- we'll talk about him if he gets to 200 wins
    Alex Rodriguez- HOF, no question, if he keeps putting up the numbers he has in the past two years- then they should put him in the Hall while he's still playing
    Ichiro- he is already 27 (or 28?) it'll be interesting to see if he can do what he's done for ten more years
    Kerry Wood- too many walks, can't seem to put it all together
    Berkman- way too early to talk HOF
    Soriano- way too early to talk HOF

    Closers- if the HOF will start voting in closers
    Mariano Rivera- no question
    Trevor Hoffman- HOF

    One last thing: a couple of Cuban players who never played in the Major Leagues are in the HOF. When you add El Duque's MLB numbers with his Cuban record (around 250-50) I think he deserves to be in the HOF.
     
  19. Patrick_S

    Patrick_S Producer

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  20. Phil L

    Phil L Supporting Actor

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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    One last thing: a couple of Cuban players who never played in the Major Leagues are in the HOF.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just out of curiousity who are they?
     

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