Are the Diva and Rockets really that good? (1 Viewer)

[Seth_L]

Let me start out by saying that I've not had a chance to hear either the Divas or the Rockets. I would like to listen to a pair and see what I think.

I've been thinking about them some. It just seems all too perfect. First the Divas come out and they're just breathtaking. Now the Rockets come out and are even better than the Divas. People who bought Divas are now running to get the next latest and greatest thing (Rockets).

What could Swan and Onyx know about speaker building that no one else knows? Can they really know so much more about loudspeaker design and have that much better control over production than everyone else who makes loudspeakers?

Are we witnessing the power of suggestion? or are they really that good? We know how powerful a placebo can be just from the mere power of suggestion. Are the Diva's and Rockets the audio equivalent of the Tickle Me Elmo, A snowball that just keeps gaining momentum as it tumbles down the mountain?

Seth

 

[MarcW]

Well quite honestly it is really up to you to make that judgment call. Judging the quality of speakers is very subjective. What I think sounds great may sound horrible to you and vice versa. You can't buy speakers by the specs sheet. If you are curious to find out if these speakers are worth all their money or if it is just a hype then go to audioenvy.com find an owner in your area and give them a listen. Let YOUR ears be the judge.

-MarcW

 

[bnlitin]

As an owner of Divas 6.1/C3/R3, I may be biased, but I really like the Swan Diva speakers. I haven't seen or heard the Rockets, so I can't comment on them.

I have owned other speakers before, including Magnepan MG1.6/QR, Snell K2, and others. I have also listened to the B&W 804, which was the speaker I was planning to buy.
I decided to take a chance on the Divas, in the hope of saving some money.

I like the build quality and the look of the Divas. I also like the way they sound. I would say that I prefer them over B&W 804, but this is my opinion. Your preferences might be different. I still like the Maggies, but the Divas are much easier to place in my house.

A lot of people build their own speakers because the cost of the drivers, crossover, and enclosure is much less then the price you would pay at a dealer. There is a lot of markup on speakers. When you pay $3500 for B&W 804, you are paying for the B&W advertising, sales overhead, dealer overhead, etc.

As far as speaker design, B&W should have superior engineering facilities. But, to my ears the Diva 6.1 sound superior to the Nautilus 804 (at 1/3 the price)

If you want the brand name and got the bucks, by all means get the B&W or Paradigm. They are excellent speakers and hold their value fairly well. If you want to save some money, the Divas or Rockets are worth a try.

 

[Henry_W]

If you like good cones and are really fond of a bargain, I do not believe you will find as good a speaker at the price as the Divas. Don't know about the rockets.

Step above the cones with stats and planars if you want to dive in to the ultimate smooth sound.

Always be careful with my opinions though - I am a Horn person - and remember to try and listen for yourself.

 

[Holadem]

I've been thinking about them some. It just seems all too perfect.

Yup, same here. I have always been skeptical about overhyped products.

Case in point, nOrh. I have come to realise that while it seems nOrh owners are everywhere (actually they seem to have dissapeared) touting how terrific it is, when you look closely you see that most of the hype is being generated by a vocal few - Tyson is a good example. WHen every search turn out the same few people with everyone else salivating and recommending without hearing, I get suspiscious. I have been looking for a used set of the 4.0 myself just fro comparison's sake. At $300 (seems to be the going used price), I have little to loose as I can probably sell it for the same price.


Now, I have bought SVS based on hype alone and have never regretted it. However, I have also heard quite a few people who did not like SVS. This takes these subs down from the "God status" to teh mortal realm, which is much more realistic and reassuring.

--
Holadem

 

[SkiingNinja]

What could Swan and Onyx know about speaker building that no one else knows? Can they really know so much more about loudspeaker design and have that much better control over production than everyone else who makes loudspeakers?

Hi Seth. It really isn't so much of Swan or Onix knowing some holy grail of speaker design...its more of the business model and the people involved. A staggering amount of combined industry experience and a well run manufacturing facility all contribute. Simply, you can get more speaker for the money due to the lack of aforementioned overhead costs.

I see you are in Detroit...if you ever are in the Denver area, give me a call and you can stop by my place for a listen...that goes for anyone else here too.

Sean

 

[Bruce Chang]

There in it's own class, but there's crazy people in here that says the divas and rockets are better then speakers 4 times it's price. I say that's BS, and you get what you pay for.

 

[SkiingNinja]

Wish I knew you when I lived in CA Bruce...you could have stopped by my place for a listen to Rockets and Divas...


Sean

 

[ErichH]

There seems to be a fascination with the Rockets right now. The AVS string was really hyped, and it makes me wonder if they're only hoping to gain some of the SVS status here in the forums?
I definitely believe in the small company-like SVS and Outlaw, so maby there's something to it??
Need to hear um first!
There will be some reviews as more sets get delivered, so.....

e

 

[Russell _T]

Erich,
I think it's more of a natural progression than facination. Taking a good thing (The Divas) and making it better.(The Rockets) Over the past year, the Divas have become easily as popular as the well regarded SV subs, just on a different Forum. There are many Diva owners on this Forum as well. Time will tell if the Rockets become the popular success that their predecessors were, but as one of the few people who have both, my feeling is that as more people buy the Rockets, and word spreads, they will be huge.

 

[Bruce Chang]

Sean, The silverline sonatina's would pretty much shame the rockets. I don't know what the hype is. Give silverline an audition and you would know what I'm talking about the corellation between price and quality sound. Go to www.audioasylum.com and look for yourself. It's like people saying that the PSB goldi's sound the same as the Aerial 10T, give me a break.

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

Quote:

First off, let me say that I'm glad to hear you're skeptical. It can be easy to be drawn into the hype and get excited about a product without ever hearing it.

That said, it's funny you should bring this up. My friend Ben has a set of nOrh 4.0 ceramics and he brought them over to my place last weekend to directly compare them to my Diva 4.1s. To tell the truth, the nOrhs and the Divas performed at just about the same level. The biggest difference between the two speakers was a slightly fuller mid-range on the nOrhs. I think it's safe to say that either brand is a winner. However, at $850 for set of five 4.0s shipped, I think that the nOrhs are/were the better bang-for-the-buck value than the Divas. Either way, I'd gladly recommend both to interested buyers.

 

[rodneyH]

"What could Swan and Onyx know about speaker building that no one else knows? Can they really know so much more about loudspeaker design and have that much better control over production than everyone else who makes loudspeakers?"

I THINK IT HAS TO DO MORE WITH THE FACT THAT YOU CAN BUY THEM DIRECT, SO THEY CAN BE CHEAPER, NOT NECESSARILY THE TECHNOLOGY (BUT, I HAVE HEARD THAT THE TECH IS GOOD AS WELL).

"It just seems all too perfect. First the Divas come out and they're just breathtaking. Now the Rockets come out and are even better than the Divas. People who bought Divas are now running to get the next latest and greatest thing (Rockets)."

I TOO AM/WAS A LITTLE SCEPTICAL, AFTER ALL, WHEN THE DIVAS FIRST CAME OUT, THERE WERE SUPPOSED TO "COMPETE" WITH SPEAKERS 2-3x IN PRICE, NOW WE HEAR FROM SOME ROCKET OWNERS THAT USE TO OWN DIVAS THAT THE DIVAS SOUND MORE "MUDDY" AND SLIGHTLY MORE "BOOMY", AND NOT AS REFINED (THIER WORDS NOT MINE, AND THESE WERE THE VERY SAME PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY CAN'T BE BEAT). (DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A SPEAKER THAT COMPETES WITH 2-3x THE $$, BUT MAYBE).

"But, to my ears the Diva 6.1 sound superior to the Nautilus 804 (at 1/3 the price)"

i DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED BUT THE WORD I GET IS THAT THE DIVAS DO NOT!!! HAVE SIMILAR SOUND CHARACTERISTICS AS A B&W (DIVAS BEING MORE LAID BACK, VS FORWARD IN SOUND). iN OTHER WORDS, PERHAPS THE DIVAS ONLY COMPARE TO B&Ws IN LOOKS AND not SOUND!! (BTW, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE NEW ROCKETS SOUND MORE LIKE B&WS THAN THE DIVAS EVER DID). PERHAPS IF YOU LIKE THAT SOUND, STOP COMPARING THEM TO B&WS AND START COMPARING THEM TO VANDERSTEENS, DYNAUDIO, TOTEM, SOLILOQUYS, SINCE THOSE SPEAKERS ARE GOING AFTER THE SAME "LAID BACK" SOUND (UNLESS YOU ARE SIMPLY BUYING SPEAKERS ON APPEARANCE).

"the divas and rockets are better then speakers 4 times it's price. I say that's BS, and you get what you pay for."

WAIT, I THOUGHT IT WAS "COMPETE WITH SPEAKERS UP TO 2-3X THE PRICE" (WHICH MEANS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAT "BEATING SOMETHNG 4X THE PRICE). tHE ORIGINAL CLAIM THAT THEY MADE OF "COMPETING WITH A PAIR OF SPEAKERS 2X THE $$$" CAN BE REASONABLE TO BELIEVE, AFTER ALL THEY DON'T HAVE ALL THE DEALERS TO PAY, AND THEY ARE MADE IN CHINA (NOT THAT THAT IS A BAD THING AND CHINA MAKES SOME GREAT PRODUCTS, BUT IT DOES SAVE $$).

HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I HAVE BEEN TEMPTED TO PURCHASE A PAIR OF ROCKETS (AS A B&W OWNER, THE "LAID BACK SOUND" OF THE DIVAS NEVER TEMPTED ME, I ALREADY HAVE A PAIR OF VANDERSTEENS IN ANOTHER ROOM THAT I MUCH PREFER THE "B&W SOUND OVER"). I FIND MYSELF IN A BIND, SINCE I GET SUCH GREAT DEALS ON B&Ws (AS WELL AS MOST ALL OTHER NON-INTERNET AUDIO COMPANIES). SAYING THAT I AM STILL CONFEDENT ENOUGH TO RECOMMEND A PAIR OF THE ROCKETS TO MY BROTHER AND HAVE HIM TAKE A CLOSER LOOK (AS SOON AS SOME OWNERS GET TO SOCAL, THEN THIS PROCESS WILL BE SPEAD UP). i HAVE ALSO BEEN TEMPTED TO GET A PAIR FOR MY OTHER ROOM TO REPLACE MY VANDYS, AND STILL MIGHT?? I am confident that they do "compete with speakers 2X the price" (and it would be interesting to test them against my 804s). Also, If I didn't find myself in the situation that I am in (getting the great deals), I would personally drive to Colorado and listen to Seans. I have e-mailed him and asked him Q's and he has been very good in responding and sounds like he has a passion for his product and his customers.

 

[Sean D]

Hey Bruce,
Have you heard the Rockets or the Silverlines?

 

[Bruce Chang]

Sean,
Silverlines.

 

[Greg Br]

I would say the Divas are on Par with reference series from Paradigm, DT, Klipsch and some others. The big diference is the cost. My same system with Klipsch was $3300, it was $2200 with the Divas. Saying they are much better than the speakers in its own class is not accurate IMO. But to save over $1000, well you can see the fascination.

 

[Holadem]

I would say the Divas are on Par with reference series from Paradigm, DT, Klipsch and some others. The big diference is the cost. My same system with Klipsch was $3300, it was $2200 with the Divas.

Thats more like it
BTW, that's a pretty bold move, from extreme brightness to laid back!
Those divas/rockets look absolutely gorgeous. I WISH they came in black. Come on, it is certainly possible. Surely their makers must realise that that are loosing a significant number of potential customers by not offering the easiest and most classic color of all!
--
Holadem

 

[Steve Zimmerman]

The silverline sonatina's would pretty much shame the rockets.

This from a person who has never heard the Rocket speakers. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sonatinas have an MSRP of approximately THREE times a pair of Rockets.
As a Rocket/Diva owner, I have never made the "sound better than speakers costing 3X" claim and I never will. I'm sure AV123.com does not and would not claim that the Rockets and/or Divas were designed to compete with Dunlavy, Wilson, and other "cost-is-no-object" speakers.
That said, I'm annoyed by the intimation that these speakers have no underlying ingenuity or quality to back up their popularity. Well, you might not be well-read enough of an audio enthusiast to have heard of Dick Pierce, but *I* have and I am certainly not alone in holding his loudspeaker design skills in very high esteem. The man is a living legend for crying out loud.
I'm hoping you'll soon see a white paper or two on the Link Removed Web site describing the ingenuity Mr. Pierce has put into the design of the Rockets because it's frankly remarkable. Could he and the others involved have built a better speaker for $3500/pair? Absolutely. They could have spent more money in any number of areas. But do the Diva/Rockets represent an incredible value at their price point? Without a doubt.
--Steve

 

[John Kotches]

Steve,
Thanks for posting your last message you just saved me some typing.
I'm a big fan of direct purchasing speakers, all of my main system is comprised of direct purchase products, none of them are Rockets or Divas, so I'm not biased towards these particular brands
Using the standard purchasing model, you have at least two layers of markups, sometimes three.
1) Manufacturer sells speaker at a profit.
2) Distributor buys/sells speaker at a profit *** Optional
3) Dealer buys/sells speaker at a profit
Using direct models means you have one layer of profit
1) Manufacturer sells speaker at a profit
So, we've cut out at least one layer of markup.
This is part of the pricing discrepancy, the other part could be labor costs associated with manufacturing. I don't know where Silverlines are manufactured, so I don't know what costs are involved in the manufacture. Additionally, HiVi is one of the biggest manufacturers of speakers around, so economy of scale for manufacture comes into play here, that probably does not come into play for Silverline.
Some things to think about.
Regards,

 

[Winston_T]

Starting off, I am a Diva 6.1 owner... and a Onix Rocket RS750 owner.
Second, Seth_L, I'm sorry I didn't catch this post yesterday...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=153502
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Michigan (Ann Arbor Area) Speaker Meet
I'd like to offer up what I consider an unusual opportunity to folks within driving distance of Ann Arbor.
About a month ago, I purchased the Diva 6.1 package (6.1 Front, C3 Center, R3 Surround). Last week, I purchased Rocket Package 2 (RS750 Front, RS200 Center, RSS300 Surround). One of these packages will have to go back. Until that time comes, I will make the Diva’s and Rocket’s available for auditioning. This will give everyone who wants it, a rather unique opportunity to A/B the top of the line Divas and Rockets for themselves.
I plan on receiving the Rockets late in the week and will be breaking them in this weekend, using the disk that zooplancton has generously provided and some other disks from my collection.
I’m not going to set any particular date or time, but I thought I’d post this offer in the “Meets” section since several of you have expressed interest in listening to the Diva’s while I was at jbryngelson’s well attended (to say the least) meet. If people want to listen to the speakers, as well as take this as an opportunity to meet other people, let’s set a date of say… July 27th.
Winston
System:
Sony 32" TV (about 5-6 years old)
Denon AVR-3802
Sony 5 disc DVD/CD player (CDR capable)
HSU VTF-3
Misc. speakers.
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Hi all,
Just a reminder that this Saturday @ 2:00 is when I'm planning on the "generic" get together.
Email me for directions, etc or just to say that you can't make it:
[email protected]
If you want listen to the speakers solo (before or after the meet) just email me and we can arrange something.
FYI: The email is temporary. I will delete it if a crawler finds it and starts spamming.
=====
If anyone is in the area please feel free to drop me a line and come on over.