Are speakers hanging from corner of ceiling or side of wall bad for FRONT L/FRONT R?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by elMalloc, Jan 9, 2002.

  1. elMalloc

    elMalloc Supporting Actor

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    Should I be looking at these types of satellite speakers for my HT setup, or bookshelf? I don't think I can fit floorstanding. I have a small room (12x12). I think I can fit bookshelf fine, but I was wondering if satellite speakers are OK for front L/front R (and then possibly surround rears).

    I am using a harman kardon avr120 which gives 40W X 5, which is low but it gives high current output so it still sounds clear at higher levels, but I don't really need louder sounds anyways, it sounds loud enough in my small room.

    Basically I'm asking for help on what speakers I should be looking for in my setup, I've tested out some different bookshelf speakers and I have an inkling what I would choose there, but what are the benefits/disadvantages to having satellite fronts (ESPECIALLY IN MY SETUP of a small room and receiver which doesn't pump blistering volume).

    Thanks,

    ELmO
     
  2. Gary Thomas

    Gary Thomas Second Unit

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    Hi Elmo:

    Satellite speakers are fine as long as you plan on purchasing a subwoofer as well. Two things to look for: sensitivity & frequency response.

    You'll want a high sensitivity rating, say 90dB or better, to get the most out of your receiver. I had the Klipsch Quintets at one time & they were excellent. (I've seen great deals on these on ebay)

    For frequency response you'll want to ensure they will go low enough to blend with your subwoofer. Do you know what your receiver crossover point is? If it's 100 Hz you'll be fine, but if your receiver only crosses over at 80 Hz, you'll want speakers that will go down to 75 Hz.

    Placement of your speakers is key. I would avoid mounting your front speakers high on the front wall. Ideally, you'll want them at ear level. You can pick up speaker stands for as little as $50 that will give you better results than having the speakers mounted on a wall or placed in a cabinet or shelf.

    Brands that are recommended for satellite speakers are Energy, Klipsch and NHT.
     
  3. elMalloc

    elMalloc Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for the great info.
    Yes, I've seen great deals on the Klipsch Quintets and did ask about them but couldn't get a good reply about it. Are they rated 200W though? Does that matter since my receiver doesn't pump as much wattage out, does the speaker have to do more work?
    I have a subwoofer already, it works decently. My main speakers and surrounds need to be changed (they're from an HT in box - philips).
    How do I figure out my receiver's crossover point is, and what is that?
    Thanks for helping a newbie [​IMG] ,
    ELmO
     
  4. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    elmo -
    your receiver's manual should tell you what the cross-over point is. my guess is it'll be 80Hz (that's pretty standard). your sub's manual should tell you how hi/low it'll go too. you'll need to know these specs when looking at speakers.
    why you ask? because...
    the issue is you want to make sure that your speakers go lower than whatever your crossover point is. otherwise, you'll have a hole in your frequency range: in other words the sub will go up to say 60Hz, but your speaker will only go down to 90Hz. that means there is a hole from 60Hz to 90Hz - not a good thing. tbh, this more than likely will not happen, regardless of what setup you choose, but it's something to consider.
    as far as speaker placement goes, i agree with gary. you'll want your mains up front, at ear level. i bought some 40 dollar stands from circuit city and i *swear* they were the best tweak i've ever done for my system. i can't recommend them enough! i think you mentioned something about putting your mains on the side? definitely don't do that!
    i also wouldn't hang the speakers for one other reason...i'd be too scared they'd fall! [​IMG]
     
  5. elMalloc

    elMalloc Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for that input!

    When I said hang I think I meant attach to the wall but I don't know what I mean when I talk sometimes.

    I looked at my subwoofer manual. And yes, I think this is the problem I'm having at this time with the philips speakers/philips subwoofer - the subwoofer bass is getting hit and the speakers can't match it and it sounds odd at times - all my speakers are set to small, if I set them to large they receive more bass response but it still doesn't sound right (crap speakers).

    The subwoofer is 100W RMS, I'm not sure if this is what you are asking yet for the woofer it says:

    Frequency Response: 30-110 HZ

    I'm in the HKAVR120 manual and I don't see anything called Crossover point. I only see frequency response @1 W (10 HZ - 100KHZ).

    Is there anything else they might have labeled it?

    Thanks,

    ELmO
     
  6. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    hmmm...
    if the phillip's speakers are a set, i can't imagine they wouldn't have balanced the frequency response. i'm not sure what else could be causing your problems. try to describe in detail what the problem with the sound is. it's possible you're just not digging the speakers.
    you are correct in setting the speakers to small. as far as lfe (low frequency effects...the bass) goes: you want the sub to "do the work"...not your speakers.
    the sub's frequency response is is high enough. you shouldn't have any problem matching it with any speakers you get - i can't imagine any decent speaker not going down to 110Hz.
    i don't know what else the manual could have labeled the cross-over point. try posting this specific question in the receivers forum, or call tech-support!
    [​IMG]
     
  7. elMalloc

    elMalloc Supporting Actor

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    They didn't specifically label it, but from what I gather what crossover point is, it seems like the receiver is 100 HZ.

    In speaker setup, if you set the speaker size to LARGE it says that means it is capable of reproducing sounds below 100 HZ. If you set the speakers to SMALL, it cannot reproduce sounds below 100 HZ and those go to the subwoofer.

    Does that sound like the crossover for the receiver is 100 HZ?

    Thanks,

    ELMO
     
  8. elMalloc

    elMalloc Supporting Actor

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    I had a Philips Receiver which was 100W X 5, it came with the speakers and Subwoofer...and sounded great (to me).

    I now sold the receiver because I needed more inputs (mainly 3 optical inputs and 1 more SVIDEO) and the harman kardon gave those, but it outputs 45W X 5 - but supposedly has high current output which makes up for it.

    I noticed the sound is fine, but all my speakers don't seem to carry much bass and my subwoofer is. I think the old receiver was set to having my speakers as "large", so they were also receiving the bass data, and I'm now trying to get used to having the subwoofer do it all.

    Yet, I want to replace the speakers. They sound great, but they are bookshelf size and there are no speaker stands that will fit them...it's hard to place them in my room correctly, the Front speakers are too close to each other. I'm still happy with every sound they produce, but I think I'd like it more if I had better, smaller speakers. My room is small enough to have satellite size (7") and still be loud. These speakers are 17" in height...I don't think their quality is very high.

    My other question is since this receiver pushes out 45 x 5, (whatever high current is) - if I pick up speakers that are 100-200W RMS, will the speakers have to do all the work and I won't get as clear a sound as I should? - I'm getting clear sound now though and these speakers are rated as 100W nominal @ 6 ohms.

    Thanks,

    ELmO
     
  9. Gary Thomas

    Gary Thomas Second Unit

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    Don't worry about the watt rating on the speakers. That is the max power you want to supply them...your receiver will always be doing all the work!

    The crossover point means that all frequencies below 100hz will be sent to the subwoofer...all frequencies above 100hz will be sent to the speakers. The lower frequencies require a larger driver to move the air. Satellite and bookshelf speakers don't have a large enough woofer to reproduce the lower frequencies.

    The Klipsch quintet has a frequency range down to 100hz. Below that level your subwoofer will take over. Your receiver will ensure that this happens.

    If, for example, your receiver crossed over at 80hz and the speakers can only reproduce frequencies down to 100hz, you'd end up with a gap.

    The sensitivity of the speakers has to do with the amount of watts required to produce a specified volume. (I'm not sure of the exact formula...perhaps someone can help me here before I hurt myself!) A speaker with a sensitivity of 90db, like the Klipsch, require far fewer watts of power than speakers with a sensitivity of 86db. The higher the sensitivity, the easier it is for your reciever to drive them.

    BTW...set all of your speakers to the "small" setting. The only reason you might even think of setting your front speakers to large is if they could reproduce frequencies down to 30 or 35hz. My front speakers go down to 45hz & I still have them set to small. The subwoofer is the only speaker specifically designed to handle lower frequencies.
     
  10. elMalloc

    elMalloc Supporting Actor

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    Alright great help everyone, I think I understand it all now. I'll look into those Klipsch Quintets.

    What are your guys opinions on Quintets vs the Take 5.2 system? My budget is $500-600 for all speakers. I don't know if I should again get these packages or just go a pair of speakers/center at a time.

    Thanks,

    ELmO
     
  11. Bert D

    Bert D Stunt Coordinator

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    Try out some JBL S38's for fronts, $275 shipped on the net, and a pair of Kenwood kv64's from Ubid. brand new for $92. Why spend more ? The s38's have great reviews and the KV64's are a steal and are dipole, awesome set up for a small room like yours. You could add the S center for about $160 on the net, still under budget. Yes, I am biased, as i have all these speakers myself. The Kenwood's truly are a deal not to be passed up. IMHO
     
  12. elMalloc

    elMalloc Supporting Actor

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    OK Thanks for that input Bert, I'll try to get someplace to listen to those kenwoods and JBLs.

    Could you explain to me dipole (and other poles?), I'm going to sites right now to try to figure that stuff out.

    Also what's the hoopla behind 2 and 3 way speakers?

    I guess I need to find a home theater dictionary.

    Thanks,

    ELmO
     
  13. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    the purpose of bi-poles (or di-poles) is to create a speaker that provides a more "diffused" sound.
    imagine a speaker with drivers (tweeters & woofer) on the front and back. you don't face the drivers toward the listener...instead you face the side of the cabinet (called the "null") towards you. then, when the speaker is playing, the sound doesn't "hit" you directly. instead, it is sent throughout the room.
    two-way vs. three-way speakers:
    a speaker has drivers in it. there are three types of drivers:
    1. tweeter: for the high freq's
    2. mid-range: for the mid freq's
    3. woofer: for the low freq's
    there's a lot of argument about whether a three-way really sound better than a two-way. the argument is a 3-way has a "dedicated" driver for each frequency.
    i don't believe that.
    a quality 2-way with a well designed cross-over (the electronics that "split" the music signal to the drivers) can make all the difference.
    it's really personal preference here.
    elmo - if you learn one thing from all this, this is what i hope you'll take to heart:
    Sound is subjective and you should trust your ears! If it sounds good to you, then that's all that matters!
    now, go forth and audition them speakers!
     
  14. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Do yourself a favor and take a listen to the Paradigm Cinema Series speakers. You should be able to get all five speakers for under $500.

    Just did an install for my sister about a month ago and they sounded great along with the Paradigm PDR-10 sub they bought.

    Check them out!!
     

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