Are SACDs really better ...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jeff.bart, Sep 9, 2002.

  1. Jeff.bart

    Jeff.bart Stunt Coordinator

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    than DVD-A at reproducing the sound of regular CDs? I am looking to get a CD player and was leaning toward SACD on reports that this is true. Plus, Sony does more classical, which is what I listen to.
     
  2. MikeSRC

    MikeSRC Second Unit

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    The die-hard proponents of each format may tell you otherwise, but both formats provide equally excellent sound when properly implemented. Go with whichever one provides you with more of the types of music you're looking for, and fits best into your future upgrade plans. A high resolution transfer of a bad master is not going to help, but a quality transfer from a good original master can sound spectacular on either format.

    I have both, and they both are fantastic, but it really depends on the individual disc.
     
  3. Rob Rodier

    Rob Rodier Supporting Actor

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  4. David Head

    David Head Second Unit

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    I believe Jeff is asking about redbook CD playback on SACD and DVD-A players.

    The Sony SCD-C555ES SACD player sounds better on redbook CD playback than any DVD-A player I've heard that is
     
  5. David Berry

    David Berry Stunt Coordinator

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    Jeff,

    Do a search on the SCD-C555ES SACD player that Sony manufactures. There are many discussions on how well this player delivers on regular CD playback. If you later decide to utilize the higher resolution format, there are plenty of classical titles.
    It should be noted, however, that I believe this player has been discontinued and can be had for an extremely attractive price at Oade Brothers, J&R, etc.
     
  6. MikeSRC

    MikeSRC Second Unit

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    You're right, I read the post too fast. I agree, an SACD player will provide better playback of CDs than most DVD players, DVD-A capable or otherwise.
     
  7. Daryl Furkalo

    Daryl Furkalo Second Unit

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    Jeff,

    I have an RP-91 DVD-A player and a Sony 555ES SACD. The Sony easily beats the RP-91 on redbook CD playback. I originally used the RP-91 as my CD player, and when I got the 555, the RP-91 got demoted to strictly DVD use. With lower end SACD players, non-ES Sony to be specific, the redbook CD playbook may be a lot worse.
     
  8. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Well, I guess I'll cast the dissenting vote.

    At reduced (aka clearance pricing) the Toshiba SD-9200 is a very good CD playback machines, and compare favorably with the Sony products. It also has HDCD decoding which the Sony's lack.

    Another option for playback that should fare well include Denon's DV-1600 (very nice Burr-Brown DACs).

    For a bit above the budget, the Denon DV-3800 is yet another excellent CD playback solution.

    Regards,
     
  9. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    [​IMG] If you close your eyes Jeff, and say I do believe in SACD three times, and click your heels together, you'll wake up back home in Kansas with an SACD player. The difference over redbook is obvious. Best wishes!
     
  10. James Q Jenkins

    James Q Jenkins Stunt Coordinator

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    But the original post was asking about redbook CD playback on DVD-A versus SACD players. At least that's what I thought it was saying, it is difficult to understand.
     
  11. Jeff.bart

    Jeff.bart Stunt Coordinator

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    James, that is indeed what I was wondering. I probably won't buy a lot of SACD or DVD-A discs for awhile -- I have 800 CDs -- but if either technology reproduces regular CD sound better than the other, I probably would lean in that direction. Mostly I've read and heard that SACD-based machines do a better job with CD playback.
     
  12. Doug Fogle

    Doug Fogle Stunt Coordinator

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    The upcoming Phillips 963SA is supposed to upsample regular CDs to 24/192 which should improve quality. Has me intrigued enough to wait anyways.
     
  13. MikeSRC

    MikeSRC Second Unit

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    The Panasonic RP-82 upsamples regular CDs. There's minor improvement with some CDs, but nothing to wait for IMO.
     
  14. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Jeff, playback quality of components vary. In general, I find that CD and SACD players beat comparably priced DVD and DVD-Audio players playing CDs. However, as John said, some DVD-Audio players are quite good with CDs. It is impossible to say definitively that SACD or DVD-Audio players make better CD players. That said, I highly recommend the Sony SCD-C555ES for around $600. It is an excellent CD player, plus you basically get SACD for free. I say that because in my experience, the 'C555ES beats any straight CD player priced up to $1000. The 'C555ES is an exceptional value.
     
  15. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  16. Frank Zimkas

    Frank Zimkas Supporting Actor

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    Get the Pioneer Elite DV-47A and you can listen to all of the formats and decide which you prefer.
     
  17. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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  18. Doug Fogle

    Doug Fogle Stunt Coordinator

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    I feel kinda foolish,since I've been searching other forums for months about the benifits of upsampling without much luck and on here I get a lot of helpful info the first time! I admit to being a novice in audio and I appreciate the comments.Did not know RP82 did upsampling-they don't really advertise it.But its hard to beleive it does nothing to upsample-I mean people spend $1000's on DACs that do that,dont they? Is it a waste of money then? I was hesitant on whether a $500 player like the 963 could do a fair job of upsampling and that is why I'm waiting-what if it does? I dont want to be kicking myself down the road cause I gave up on it.The RP82 can be had for around $200. Its primary function is to play good video,and judging by the posts I've read succeeds.Secondary would be DVD-A,I think.Is it fair to say CD playback,upsampled or not,would have not been a major concern when they designed the 82?
     
  19. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Doug,

    The 'RP82 is not going to compete with high-end upsampling CD players. There is no comparison. The 'RP82 has what Matsushita has called the "Re-Master" feature, which does some sort of upsampling. I have a first-generation Technics DVD-A10 DVD-Audio player that has the Re-Master feature, and I notice no improvement in sound quality with it engaged. When the 'A10 was current, a few magazine reviews actually said that CDs sounded worse with the Re-Master feature turned on. In any event, I would not put the 'RP82 in the same category as high-end upsampling CD players.


    Mike,

    I have read comments on Audio Asylum stating that some upsampling CD players and DACs sound better in 24/96 mode than in 24/192 mode. Furthermore, I have read that 24/88.2 and 24/176.4 sound better than 24/96 and 24/192. It seems that some folks feel that a sampling rate that is an even multiple of 44.1 sounds better. It may have to do with excess dither and the "approximations" that are made in taking the 44.1 source and upsampling it to 96 or 192 kHz. Perhaps some folks out there have more to add about this.
     
  20. Brennan Hill

    Brennan Hill Stunt Coordinator

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    I've taken my new Stones' Let It Bleed cd to Best Buy, the Good Guys, Circuit City, and my local Hi-Fi shop. Not one of these places had software I could A/B with sacd/redbook, not one of these stores even knew how to get the sacd player to play the sacd in redbook. If sacd is so good, why aren't retailers trying to sell it? Maybe it's just me, but if I was trying to sell sacd hardware that is head and shoulders above redbook, the first thing I would do would be to provide an A/B setup for easy comparison. The cynic in me is starting to believe that they want me to buy it on reputation alone because the difference isn't that great to the average ear.
     

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