are fixed pixel displays more "pixely"...

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Ted Lee, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    hi all -

    i currently own a mits 65" rptv and am thinking about purchasing a sony lcd (possibly the 60" 955 series).

    but, from what i've seen, fixed pixel displays (whether dlp or lcd) seem quite jagged on standard-def programming. maybe it's just me, but i don't see that level of pixellation on my mits rptv.

    so, i wonder if fixed pixel displays don't do a good job with their scaling, or algorithims, or whatever - when it comes to standard-def programming?

    any opinions/thoughts are welcome.

    thx!
     
  2. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Are you talking image artifacts like blockiness, etc? Or just visibility of the display's native pixel grid. The latter of course, will be present on fixed-pixel displays to varying amount depending on the resolution and technology, and viewing ratio. Visibility of image artifacts can vary, but many digital displays can exacerbate the visibility of artifacts due to their own limitations.
     
  3. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    hey chris - i mean artifacts, blocking, etc.
     
  4. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    the answer to this really depends on a lot of things, not to mention the source and connection method can have a lot to do with it.

    But still, in general, if you eliminate those problems, I would still hesitantly say that yes, digitals tend to artifact more.
     
  5. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    I still have not had anyone straight out tell me that fixed pixel TVs won't have that issue (Direct view or Projection) in best circumstances.

    I have only tested a few TVs in store (not best of setting for this but) so far every single one even with good player, good DVD and good wires I still see these issues.

    It's a bother to me, a big one. Especially since a lot of old DVD transfer already have this problem. So watching them on these must be agonizing! I remember trying to watch The Prophecy (with Christopher Walken) on my Pioneer Elite CRT RPTV once. OMG! First of all it is NOT anamorphic and the transfer was horrible. It looked like I was playing a 100Mb .asf file on my 64".

    Can you imagine this on a DLP RPTV? I feel like watching a movie on a display like this I would always wonder if the DVD has bad compression or if it's the display.
     
  6. Elinor

    Elinor Supporting Actor

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    I guess different people see different things. I never saw a RP-CRT that looked as good as any RP-LCD or DLP. They just look sharper to me. Sure, they have better blacks, but "overall picture"? ... to me, no contest.

    More pixelation? I dunno. This is more often the fault of the source, not usually the fault of the set (DirectTv, Dish, station).
     
  7. Chad B

    Chad B Stunt Coordinator

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    I believe Chris is right. All else being equal, I think most DLPs (and plasmas) have some false contouring that is visible especially if you view from too close. The screen door effect can add a textured look to the whites one some LCDs and plasmas.
    Calibrated CRT's just look smoother and more analog (lifelike?). An uncalibrated CRT RPTV is a sad sight to behold, though.
     
  8. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    sorry for not really elaborating, but it's really impossible to just isolate the display itself, as inputs and sources play a big part, even with the same display. But you can't group digitals all together either, some are more brutally resolving, in certain areas, than others. The other issue is brightness, from my experience the brighter the image, the more visible artifacts in the source will be. The display is resolving MORE than other displays, but is this subjectively better? Hard to say. In my opinion, they don't have to be, and I've seen some that are not. At the same time, I also think today's pinnacle of digital displays requires higher quality content than CRTs do, as CRTs are more forgiving, IMO. For better or worse, I am of the opinion that if I wanted to view a video clip as just a video clip to observe encoding artifacts, etc, I would probably choose a high-end digital.

    For entertainment viewing, and pleasure, I'd lean more towards CRT. But it's really hard to draw overall conclusions, but in terms of well-setup systems, this would be the general trend.

    I am assuming high-quality systems, and properly calibrated in all cases, not just out-of the box POS units from target (pronounced tar-shay)
     
  9. Elinor

    Elinor Supporting Actor

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    Hey don't knock Target. I love that place [​IMG]
     
  10. BenK

    BenK Stunt Coordinator

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    A good signal or DVD transfer will look phenominal on a microdisplay. But it works both ways as a bad signal will look worse. They're much sharper so they'll accentuate the good AND bad. I've got a Sony 55" XS955 series LCD RPTV and I've seen detail in DVD's that I've never seen on my CRT RPTV tv. I have no problems with blockiness or pixelation. Give one a try. Return it if you don't like it.
     
  11. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    thx all.

    ben, that's good to hear as i'm looking at the same tv as you ... just possibly in the 60". [​IMG]
     
  12. BenK

    BenK Stunt Coordinator

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    Ted, the XS series is the one to get. Properly setup its output is truly stunning. Check out the 55/60XS955 owners thread at "the other forum".
     
  13. Scott McAllister

    Scott McAllister Stunt Coordinator

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    Hmmm...I just bought a 60XS955 and I'm a total newb when it comes to this stuff. Can you PM me the URL for that owner's thread?
     
  14. Rich H

    Rich H Second Unit

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    Regarding digital, fixed pixel displays like plasmas/DLP/LCD, don't forget the role played by the display's scaling/processing.

    Often a yucky image on a digital display is due to average or poor scaling of the image to the native resolution. So you end up with various artifacts like blocky edges, pixellated look, smudgey etc.

    Therefore don't jump to "well, this digital display is so sharp it's showing me the artifacts in the source." All too often the digital display itself is introducing or exacerbating artifacts in the image. Which is why not-so-great DVD transfers and SD signals can look so bad. It's not necessarily that the digital display is showing you all the flaws, it's that the flaws are hard for the display's scaler to handle, resulting in added scaling artifacts. High-Def can look good on anything, but how a display handles lesser signals can often let you know how good it's scaler actually is.
     
  15. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    From my experience, all the Sony LCD RPTV's are good at looking 'natural' with bad programming - not 'digital' They seem to soften up a poor image and they look pretty good (for what you have to work with)
     

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