Are EX and ES that much better?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by MattGuyOR, Aug 4, 2001.

  1. MattGuyOR

    MattGuyOR Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Looking into adding that rear center and wondering how much better it sounds. Is it worth it?
     
  2. Joseph Anlacan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 1999
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i recently did a pseudo EX set-up and it was worth it. it improved even some of the non-ex titles. on some titles, the improvement is significant (eg. haunting, toy story 2, etc.) it's true that the sound is more enveloping. by the way, i use 2 direct radiating side surrounds and 1 dipole rear center surround.
     
  3. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    789
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was disapointed. The improvement to me was very subtle.
     
  4. ShanonS

    ShanonS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2000
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Properly calibrated, with decent speakers, I'd definitely say it's worth it. I love my 3801, and I do think it adds a lot to non EX/ES titles also.
     
  5. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't know how I had lived without it!
    ------------------
    "You Hungarians always disagree"
    [Edited last by Lewis Besze on September 22, 2001 at 11:26 PM]
     
  6. MattGuyOR

    MattGuyOR Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I just have some smaller Polk Audio bookshelf type speakers for my surrounds. They work well, although I'm not sure if they're dipole or whatever. Can I use the same type of speaker for the rear center?
     
  7. JohnS

    JohnS Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2001
    Messages:
    4,861
    Likes Received:
    166
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    John Steffens
    I have 2 center surrounds with my Denon 3801 and think it's great!
    I also like others, think it adds to the non-ES/EX.
    Chicken Run, Gladiator, Castaway, Haunting all sound better than at the movies.
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
     
  8. MattGuyOR

    MattGuyOR Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Does the 3801 have two separate places in the back for 2 center surrounds?
     
  9. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's incredible, IMO.
    Filling up the rear soundstage, completes the audio circle [​IMG]
    IMO, this is the first step in putting the movie viewer inside the flick itself. Imagine, 20 years down the road, our TV will be a projector in the center of the ceiling with action going on all over the room [​IMG]
    With this new technology, voices and effects can come from anywhere in the room, and the positioning is correct.
    Even with non-discreet sources, the matrixed effect fills up the rear.
    Jeremy
     
  10. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  11. HalS

    HalS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2000
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A high end audio dealer, who often builds home theaters that cost well into the high 5 figures and beyond, told me in regards to EX and ES that it was entirely unnecessary unless you have a very large (ie. actual theater size room) and that he/she was basically offended by the manufacturers attempts to convince the public otherwise.
     
  12. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  13. HalS

    HalS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2000
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    quote: Let me guess he doesn't cary any brands that support such formats? [/quote]
    Yeah, because there are so many audio dealers that do a lot of business in the arena of $60,000 and up home theaters that don't have all the available formats for their customers to choose from. Especially a dealer that has most of it's customers in the film industry.
    Needless to say, this dealer was one of the first to offer such equipment. It was under that circumstance in which we had the conversation. Part of excellent service (which one certainly expects from such a high end dealer, even if you aren't buying their most expensive packages) is that the salesperson doesn't sell you things they know you don't need.
    [Edited last by HalS on August 04, 2001 at 07:03 PM]
    [Edited last by HalS on August 04, 2001 at 07:04 PM]
     
  14. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hal,
    You must tell this silly man to roll with the changes [​IMG]
    Jeremy
     
  15. Steven Simon

    Steven Simon Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 1998
    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Real Name:
    Steven Simon
    In my opinion, 2 surround back speakers really complete the rear soundstage..... Especially if you have a configuration that will support Dipoles on the sides....
    ------------------
    Thanks,
    Steven R. Simon
    HTF Administrator
    Theater Pics Updated 7-26-2001
    Send Email: [email protected]
     
  16. MattGuyOR

    MattGuyOR Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What exactly are dipoles? Should I put my polk surround speakers in the center surrounds and get some dipoles for the outer surrounds?
     
  17. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Matt,
    If you want to listen to multichannel music (DTS CDs, DVD-Audio, SACD) through that system too then I probably wouldn't go with dipoles at all.
    Dipole boxes have identical drivers firing in two directions (front and back). Instead of both cones moving out or in at the same time (bipoles), they fire out of phase (one pushes while the other pulls, back and forth-- so to speak). This creates a diffuse soundfield, which was first created for Dolby ProLogic since it has a mono surround effect.
    With the advent of 6.1 and 7.1 equipment and multichannel discrete formats like DTS, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, and Dolby Digital taking over for movie soundtrack encoding, I find it less and less necessary to use dipoles. They tend to blur, IMHO, the directionality the sound mixers wanted in the first place.
    ----------------
    Steven Simon,
    How far apart have you spread your center back surround speakers? I don't see any pictures of the back surrounds, or detailed room dimension descriptions on your web site.
    Thanks! [​IMG]
    Dan
    ------------------
    Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!
    [Edited last by Dan Hitchman on August 04, 2001 at 11:36 PM]
     
  18. derek

    derek Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 1998
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  19. John H

    John H Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 1998
    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My surrounds produce a very strong and anchored phantom center rear channel. I have tried a matrix rear center surround configuration and did not hear appreciable benefit in my setup.
    According to derek's FAQ link... http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/P...urroundex.html
    12)* What if I don't have a THX Surround EX compatible setup?* Can I still play Dolby Digital Surround EX encoded DVDs?
    *
    Yes.* Even if your home theater is not equipped for Surround EX, the encoded surround back information is still contained in the l/r surround channels and will be played back accordingly.* That is; in-phase and equal information representing the surround back EX channel sound information will be output by the l/r surround speaker arrays (ie a 'phantom rear center'.)
    quote: ...it was entirely unnecessary unless you have a very large (ie. actual theater size room)...[/quote]
    If you have a room with no seating extreme off center and surrounds that produce a solid rear phantom center is EX/ES needed?
    John
    ------------------
    Bedroom Based Theater
    [Edited last by John H on August 05, 2001 at 07:35 AM]
     
  20. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     

Share This Page