Arcam AVR 400 (1 Viewer)

[maxboy00]

First post on this site,
What is the best way to get the most sound benefit using Arcam AVR-400 in a 3.0 configuration? The room size is not suited for surround sound and this system will be replacing a sound bar. The goal is to improve upon what was being used to this 3.0 system, I may add a sub latter on, the speakers will be Monitor Audio RX6 with a center.
Thanks

 

[schan1269]

Hook it up...???
Not understanding your question.
Best way for what? What sources? Where to put the speakers? what?

 

[maxboy00]

Sorry for being vague, I guess what I am asking is that the Arcam is designed to be used as a 7.1 system and I will be using it has a 3.0 or maybe 3.1 system. The goal is to get the Arcam configured to get the best signal info to the speakers so that they perform well set-up as a 3.0 system. At present the mode is set to Dolby PL II Movie and so far seems to be okay. Is there another way to configure the AVR? The room being used is 20 X 17 open on one side . . . not very surround sound friendly, so rear surrounds are not possible and has low WAF built in.

 

[gene c]

If you're not using surround speakers then the first thing you need to do is make sure the Surround and Surround back channels are set to "None" in the speaker setup menu. Then all the surround signal info will be sent to the fronts. Even though the Monitor Audio RX6 speakers are tower speakers they still need a subwoofer if at all possible. The RX6's are only listed to 38 hz (which is pretty good for 6" drivers) but modern dvd and bluray movies add a tremendous amount of bass which could damage those very nice speakers. Even without a subwoofer I would set the crossover for the front speakers to 40 hz which will help protect them.
If you use the Arcams proprietary automatic setup and room eq (which you should) then it will set the fronts to large and the subwoofer to None. I would go back into the setup menu and change the fronts to Small and reset the crossover to 40. After the speaker sizes and crossovers are set correctly as well as the distances and individual speaker volumes, then you can try the different surround modes and see which ones work well for you. Most of us play things as they were recorded (stereo in stereo, 5.1 in 5.1 etc.) but ProLogic II or DTS Neo:6 can be effective for movies/tv recorded in stereo.
BTW, that's a lot of receiver for those speakers. The general concensus is to spend 3 times as much on speakers as you do on the receiver.

 

[schan1269]

Well...
"The goal is to get the Arcam configured to get the best signal info to the speakers so that they perform well set-up as a 3.0 system."
You go into set-up and set it up for 3.0.

 

[maxboy00]

Thanks for the detailed response.
The Arcam will not allow auto set-up with less than a 5.1 system, elsewise it must be manually configured. I have set the distance for the LCR speakers, but did not know that the volumes can be set as well. . . I will adjust this as well. I also do think the fronts are set to large, which I will now move to small and adjust the x-over down to 40 Hz. I also agree that a sub would be a wise investment but that will happen latter on.
The Arcam was choosen due to it's power Vs features, I did not want any speaker that we purchased to be under driven. The Monitor Audio's are a very nice compact speaker that has lots of WAF appeal and they sound very good for their class, so far very happy with them.

 

[Al.Anderson]

To correctly manual configure the system, get a calibration disk: (There are others. The disk will have instructions.)
http://www.amazon.com/Avia-II-Artist-Not-Provided/dp/B000X4NJNS/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1351946221&sr=1-1&keywords=avia
and an SPL meter: (There are boatloads and they aren't hard to use.)
http://www.amazon.com/USB-Digital-Sound-Level-Meter/dp/B005JX2EZ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351946330&sr=8-1
You didn't need that much amplifier, any good receiver will do more than adequately (Harman/Kardon, Marantz, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer). But it's a nice one, so if you can't return it, there's that.
I'm not as much of a fan of always setting the fronts to small as Gene is. On many amps/receivers that means that the LFE signal will not be routed at all. I'd try it both ways and see if you mind (or like) the difference. Of course, a sub will take care of that problem when you get there.

 

[maxboy00]

Thanks Al for the links I will pick both up and check them out. I will toggle the speaker setting to find a happy medium. As far as the sub is concern is I t better to stick with sub from Monitor Audio or would a sub from Rel or Velodyne work as well? The Monitor Audio's sub is a 12" 500 w sub, I was thinking a 10" would be enough.

 

[gene c]

"I'm not as much of a fan of always setting the fronts to small as Gene is. On many amps/receivers that means that the LFE signal will not be routed at all. I'd try it both ways and see if you mind (or like) the difference. Of course, a sub will take care of that problem when you get there."
The LFE signal is what worries me the most. Wouldn't that deep bass cause havic to speakers that aren't designed for them? For music setting them to Large shouldn't be that much of a problem. In fact, I liosten to stereo music in Pure Direct mode (full range) with my little Beta 20's all the time. But I wouldn't want the LFE signal to go through them, or Tim's Monitor Audio's. I'd hate for those speakers to become damaged before he gets that sub. Remember, that Arcam 400 is one powerfull receiver. Or am I overly concerned about it ?
You can get any brand of sub you want. It doesn't have to match the rest of the system.

 

[schan1269]

Pure direct mode doesn't have LFE.
The only thing that has LFE is .1 material.
Therefor...there is nothing to worry about. Besides, haven't we been listening to 2.0 since before there was .1?

 

[gene c]

Well, I guess listening to music in Pure Audio was probably a poor analogy. And yes we have, but there is much more bass mixed into movies these days then there was back then. At least I think there is.
If the LFE signal isn't mixed into the Fronts when they are set to Large and the sub set to None then I probably am worrying too much about it. But why take chances? His speakers only go down to 38 hz. He shouldn't lose much setting the x-over to 40.

 

[maxboy00]

One of the reasons I purchased the Monitor Audio's was a review in Sterophile which stated that a sub was not needed with this speaker when used in HT settings. In addition we don't watch many movies mostly sports and other stuff, another reason I did not get the sub. However, I want to avoid any damage to these speakers so I will get the sub sooner than latter as I had planned on.
When setting the speaker levels, from the set-up menu, with the distance already set adjust each speaker to 75 dBl's via the SPL meter. Easy enough, and I read in the manual that without a sub, the mains "will be forced to large." it is set to small now, but I will change it back to large.
The advice as been very helpful, I thank all of you!

 

[gene c]

Over the years there have just been too many threads like "why does my receiver shut off at this particular moment in this movie?" The reasons are:
1) The crossover is set too low
2) The front speakers are set to Large or Full Range
3) The subwoofer is set to Plus or Double-Bass
4) No subwoofer is used
5) The speakers impendance drops too low at a certain frequency
When one or more of the above are in play, some scenes, like the depth charges in U-541 and the cannon blasts in Gladiator are too much for the amp sections in many receivers to handle and they go into protect mode. The addition of a subwoofer and setting the crossover to an appropriate setting relieves the strain off the receiver's amp section (and the front speakers). I'm sure the Arcam 400 has a stout amp section and the Monitor Audio's are a high quality speaker, but again, why take chances?
I read that Stereophile review and I'm surprised he suggested they can be used without a subwoofer for HT. In your particular situation, mostly sports/tv, and at moderate volumes it might be O.K. But in general, when no subwoofer is used and the front speakers only go down to 38 hz (at best) I would recommend setting the crossover to 40 hz. But of course, it's up to each individual to to what he/she thinks is best for them.

 

[schan1269]

My personal opinion here...
If you are listening to anything and you are juicing your amp enough to cause shutdown....
1. You are trying to go deaf
2. You should buy more efficient speakers.
However a 6ohm speaker at 90db efficiency should be able to make you go deaf. Afterall, you are only supposed to pump in roughly 125watts. That gets you to...
115-ish decibels. How much louder do you need it?

 

[gene c]

It's not the over-all volume level, just the occasional but extremely deep LFE like cannon blasts and gun shots, etc. in some movies that consume a tremendous amount of current for a short period of time that can put too much stress on a receivers amp section. And front speakers if the crossover is set too low, or not used at all.

 

[schan1269]

Maybe my Onkyo gear is better than this Arcam then.
There are times on OTA(which I consider cable and sat. to both be OTA) I go into set-up and turn OFF the subwoofer(yes, tell the AVR there is no subwoofer) because in some shows...it seems the sound director(whatever the actual title for the guy/team is, I don't care) was smoking crack when doing the sound mix.
My Onkyo, through BIC V830, nor my Integra DTR7.8, through DCM TF600, ever have problems running 5.0...at extreme volumes.