AR "Basic" Component Video Cables - not good enough ?

Discussion in 'Accessories, Cables, and Remotes' started by SeanA, Jun 3, 2003.

  1. SeanA

    SeanA Second Unit

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    I was just reading the 3-page topic in this forum on the AR component video cables and was disappointed to hear that their basic line of cables really was not recommended for HD signals and/or HD-ready TVs. I purchased the AP091 cables (which I think is their most basic) from Best Buy and thought my HD picture was pretty darn good. I am using them between a Samsung OTA receiver (SIR-T151) and my 34" Sony XBR. To get the best possible picture, should I upgrade these cables ? I noticed that "Accessories4less" has the AR HT191 Pro Series cables for only $26... would these be good enough to get the best possible HD picture or should I step up yet another level ?

    Another option I have is to swap out my Monster MV3CV cables (currently connecting my progressive DVD to the Sony TV) with the AR cables. Would this make any sense ? Would I get the best possible HD picture from the Monsters and not lose picture quality from my DVD player if I use the AR cables here instead ?

    Bob ?
     
  2. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    (he he)

    I would go with the Pro2 AR cables (these are RG6 coax while the Pro used RG59).

    I would put the Monster cables on your OTA receiver. This is the 'highest' quality source you have so the cable with the better bandwidth should go here. (Assuming Monster Video 3 has the bandwidth for 1080 - cannot find this documented anywhere).


    Keep in mind that Component Video is a 1940's standard. When you buy a cable that simply says "Component", it was designed for a max frequency of 4 Mhz. A modern setup has these frequencies to handle:

    Component Video (480i): 4 Mhz
    Progressive Video (480p): 13 Mhz
    1080i/p Video: 35 Mhz
     
  3. Steve Carlo

    Steve Carlo Stunt Coordinator

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    Just as an FYI I bought the Bronze optical cable from accessories for less and I hate it. For the simple reason that it is not a snug fit in the unit and with 2 cats running around it oftgen gets tugged just a tiny bit and enough to kill all sound transport!
     
  4. SeanA

    SeanA Second Unit

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    Thanks Bob & Steve !!!

    Bob, your point about the Monster marketing hype and no solid technical data is well taken. Based on your advice (and others), I checked out several of the small batch cable manufacturers. I was really surprised how reasonable the prices were, and I ended up ordering a set of component video cables from Blue Jeans. I will use these with my STB and keep the Monster V3's on the DVD player (for now). It does bug me that Monster doesn't provide any solid technical details. Even a relative newbie like myself can understand some of the basics of good cable construction. I recall having to e-mail a question to Monster a few months back about their F-pin coaxial cable, to find out if they were using RG-59 or RG-6. I was turned off when I found out that all but their most expensive F-pin coaxial was RG-59. And I remember that they didn't quite answer my question in full either.
     
  5. Stephen Tu

    Stephen Tu Screenwriter

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  6. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    With respect Steven, to get all those channels, the CATV companies had to:

    - Run fiber-optic to drops near clusters of homes
    - Replace the RG59 with RG6

    They did this for both analog channels, "Digital" channels, and to offer broadband internet services.

    And the "500-600+ Mhz" rating is often for a DIGITAL signal, not analog (digital is much less sensitive).

    And even the really good RG6 coax has a frequency response like this:

    [​IMG]

    But the industry trend is to look at the 3 db point or 50% reduction. Canare calls the V-5CFB a "400 Mhz" capable coax. But from the response graph, you see that this coax hits the 3db point at about 250 Mhz. This makes it great for HD Video, but I'd never try to use this for a analog signal pushing 100 Mhz. (Remember: take the max frequency you expect to handle, multiply it by 4 and find a coax that can handle this number with less than a 3 db reduction over 100 feet).

    Note the other curves. The Green V-4CFB is a RG59 coax. Look at the dip in the range between 50 and 100 Mhz. The more linear response of the V-5CFB (RG6) makes it a better canidate for HD video.
     
  7. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Of course Bob, that graph is for 100 feet. For a more nominal 1-3 meter or thereabouts it's a bit different, but I understand where you're coming from. With regards to CATV, channel 2 is at a little over 50 mHz and the cable companies are running copper over steel. A different beast that doesn't need the extra cost associated with 100% copper.

    On a side note Bob, are you aware of comparable graphs that've been generated for other cables?
     
  8. Ralph B

    Ralph B Supporting Actor

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    why are we talking 100ft? most people run 6ft or less for device runs. if your talking a run for a projector fine, but still I only run 12ft to my projector after a 6ft run from my device to switch. the db loss over 18ft on RG59 is not even worth talking about. shielding is another story.

    when you quote the component#'s from the 1940's I have to laugh. most cables even cheap ones you buy at walmart are thickly shield, I am talking as thick as belden 1505f(quality is another story, also connectors)22 or maybe even 23awg rg59 stranded. do you know how long of a run you have to have to even consider a loss to even mention ?
     
  9. ChristopherDAC

    ChristopherDAC Producer

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    Well, of course there are termination losses and reflections; in fact this I think is typically the limiting factor for signal transfer quality. But another thing to consider is that frequency amplitude response correlates with phase response; a modulated signal such as CATV runs is far less sensitive to differential amplitude and phase response than a baseband signal. What do they care if there is a 50% rolloff and a 45 deg. phase shift at 250 MHz? As long as the carrier amplitude is satisfactory to the input circuit and the phase shift within the modulated frequency band is not immense the television will never know the difference. Baseband signal transmission is very different.
    That said, the cables are not normally the limiting factor in your transducer chain. Can your display really pass a 30 MHz signal undistorted in amplitude and phase? What is the signal/noise ratio of your MPEG-2 based digital source? &c.
     

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