Apple TV 4K official (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

hoping against hope there’s a new aTV and it supports bitstreamed Atmos.

.....whut?

 

[Ted Todorov]

For anyone who transcodes their own media after ripping, Plex works just fine. For people like you and me who don’t alter what’s on the disc, Infuse is essential.

Yes — thank you for explaining on my behalf! And in my case also not altering my EyeTV & TiVO recordings. Functional audio was why I got Infuse in the first place, but it is absolutely wonderful in every respect: UI, support, video quality, both its AppleTV and iPad apps

 

[DaveF]

.....whut?

AppleTV only supports a reduced form of Atmos that only works with streaming apps like Netflix.

Apple doesn’t include full Atmos decoding that Plex, Emby, Kodi use to play back full bitrate HD and UHD media.

 

[DaveF]

Thanks for the summary of Infuse. Since it didn’t / couldn’t add Atmos, I’ve ignored it. I should take a look though if it’s deinterlacing is good. Emby doesn’t do a good job with my Futurama rips.

 

[Tino]

AppleTV only supports a reduced form of Atmos that only works with streaming apps like Netflix.

Huh? I get Atmos from not only Netflix, but also my iTunes films and vudu films. Or is that what you meant?

 

[JohnRice]

Huh? I get Atmos from not only Netflix, but also my iTunes films and vudu films. Or is that what you meant?

The form of Atmos from NetFlix is DD quality, but I understand that Atmos from streamed iTunes is TrueHD quality. I can confirm that Atmos from NetFlix is NOT TrueHD, but I haven’t confirmed iTunes streams are. Robert says he has confirmed it, though.

 

[dpippel]

I would assume that the Atmos limitation in Netflix is due to the app and/or source.

 

[JohnRice]

A dark little secret is that Atmos comes in two flavors. "Lossy" DD and "Lossless" TrueHD. Robert said he figured out a way to get his Marantz SR6013 to show him which it is, but I don't know if I can do the same with my SR7012. I do know I can check it with the AV7703 in my main system, because when it's DD level, it just says "Atmos" but when it's TrueHD it says "Atmos/TrueHD". I'm not going to fire up that system just to check that,but the next time I watch something downstairs, I will check it and get back with the results. I do know for certain, NetFlix is DD quality, and I expect Prime is as well. I've never checked 4K movies in the Movies app, but I've only bought maybe two movies through iTunes that have Atmos. At least I have those, so I can check.

 

[DaveF]

Huh? I get Atmos from not only Netflix, but also my iTunes films and vudu films. Or is that what you meant?

Yes. It’s only available for lossy sources like streaming sources. But given an MKV file with standard TrueHD Atmos, no app can output more than 5.1 ( or maybe 7.1).

Here’s a bit on it.
https://firecore.com/forum/topic/20983

As @JohnRice says, AppleTV supports lossy Dolby Digital (E-AC3) Atmos, but not lossless TrueHD Atmos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Plus

 

[JohnRice]

Yes. It’s only available for lossy sources like streaming sources. But given an MKV file with standard TrueHD Atmos, no app can output more than 5.1 ( or maybe 7.1).

Dave, maybe you can clarify. I don't know if any streaming provides NetFlix or Prime with TrueHD Atmos. Has anyone been able to test other apps (not with the ATV 4K) and positively confirm any of them stream these services in TrueHD Atmos? Obviously, most people just assume that Atmos is always TrueHD, which is clearly not the case. Robert says the ATV Movies app does stream in TrueHD Atmos, but that's a completely different issue.

 

[DaveF]

Dave, maybe you can clarify. I don't know if any streaming provides NetFlix or Prime with TrueHD Atmos. Has anyone been able to test other apps (not with the ATV 4K) and positively confirm any of them stream these services in TrueHD Atmos? Obviously, most people just assume that Atmos is always TrueHD, which is clearly not the case. Robert says the ATV Movies app does stream in TrueHD Atmos, but that's a completely different issue.

Since AppleTV doesn't support TrueHD Atmos, only DD Atmos, those services don't provide it to an Apple device even if they have.

But streaming services are fundamentally "lossy" and lower bitrates, even in perfect conditions, than physical media, it seems a given that no service is using a lossless audio format.

 

[JohnRice]

Hasn’t @Robert Crawford stated iTunes movies stream through the Movies app in TrueHD Atmos? Is that correct, Robert.

 

[Sam Posten]

AppleTV only supports a reduced form of Atmos that only works with streaming apps like Netflix.

Apple doesn’t include full Atmos decoding that Plex, Emby, Kodi use to play back full bitrate HD and UHD media.

See below. Your argument is not with Apple.

 

[Sam Posten]

Yes. It’s only available for lossy sources like streaming sources. But given an MKV file with standard TrueHD Atmos, no app can output more than 5.1 ( or maybe 7.1).

No other streaming apps support lossless true HD Atmos either. AppleTV is not the blocker here, streaming services are.

 

[Sam Posten]

"Boy I wish apple supported pirated media better!"

 

[Josh Steinberg]

That’s absurd.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

It might be a benefit for gaming, but I doubt there's any reason to upgrade from the current 4K for streaming.

The only thing I could think of is if the new processor helps with handling Dolby Vision material better on the box. With some DV films watched via iTunes, I will have audio sync issues -- but not with every film on that app encoded with DV. I do not have an issue with DV material via the Disney+ app, though, nor with any SDR or HDR10 material on any app (except NHL.tv, but I assume that is an issue with the app). DV material on UHD discs played through my Denon AVR is also fine, so I do not think it's an issue with my receiver.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Hasn’t @Robert Crawford stated iTunes movies stream through the Movies app in TrueHD Atmos? Is that correct, Robert.

Without being drawn back into this discussion again. I found the following findings in September, 2018, when tvOS 12 updated on ATV4K units giving them the ability to process Dolby Atmos:

• My Yamaha 3060 receiver showed Dolby TrueHD if I turned my receiver's ability to process Dolby Atmos off.

• Unlike iTunes, Dolby Atmos titles on Vudu are not showing Dolby TrueHD if you turn off processing for Dolby Atmos. It shows Dolby Digital+.

• From Apple: “The Dolby Metadata-enhanced Audio Transmission (Dolby MAT) encoder packs the variable bit-rate Dolby TrueHD bitstreams for transmission over the fixed bit-rate HDMI connections. A MAT decoder is subsequently employed in an AVR to unpack the Dolby TrueHD bitstreams. With the introduction of Dolby Atmos, we have expanded this technology to support encoding of Dolby Atmos content as lossless PCM audio.”

• In late 2018, I've repeatedly tried to distinguish the differences between Dolby Atmos tracks on Vudu, iTunes and even 4K/UHD discs by comparing the exact film sequences across all three. The differences were so minimal to my ears that I decided it wasn't worth the number of hours I invested in doing these comparison testings.

 

[DaveF]

No other streaming apps support lossless true HD Atmos either. AppleTV is not the blocker here, streaming services are.

It’s Apple. Nvidia Shield and other devices play Atmos just fine from arbitrary sources.

"Boy I wish apple supported pirated media better!"

Dude, we’re friends! Why insult me with such obvious nonsense? And besides, Apple has no qualms supporting what you call “piracy”.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/plex-movies-tv-music-more/id383457673
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/emby/id992180193
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/infuse-6/id1136220934

I wish Apple let me play my media that I own in its full quality. I wish Apple made it easy to stay in its ecosystem. I wish Apple supported niche users, and not just the 80%-mass market solution.

 

[DaveF]

• From Apple: “The Dolby Metadata-enhanced Audio Transmission (Dolby MAT) encoder packs the variable bit-rate Dolby TrueHD bitstreams for transmission over the fixed bit-rate HDMI connections. A MAT decoder is subsequently employed in an AVR to unpack the Dolby TrueHD bitstreams. With the introduction of Dolby Atmos, we have expanded this technology to support encoding of Dolby Atmos content as lossless PCM audio.”

Thanks for the expansion on this. This gets back to the basic issue: AppleTV doesn’t support all Atmos formats.

MAT isn’t the format used on blu-rays. It’s not what us DIY home-streaming enthusiasts want and need.

“The Ultimate Dolby Atmos Guide | Nakamichi USA | True Surround Soundbar with Dolby Atmos & DTS:X”

https://www.nakamichi-usa.com/the-ultimate-dolby-atmos-guide

Certain content devices, such as Xbox One X/S and Apple TV 4K, come with a Dolby Atmos MAT encoder, which is designed to encode, decode and incorporate Dolby Atmos metadata into lossless pulse-code modulation (PCM) audio, allowing listeners to experience Dolby Atmos even in PCM audio.