Aperion Audio 512D speakers vs. ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Phil M, Feb 20, 2002.

  1. Phil M

    Phil M Stunt Coordinator

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    Anyone have any experience with the Aperion Audio 512D speakers, or the former Edge Audio 502?
    http://www.aperionaudio.com
    I see that this months HT mag gave them a favorable review, and ecoustics.com listed many favorable reviews of the Edge Audio 502D and a couple of the newer 512D by several different mags.
    I'm using Paradigm Studio 40's that I'm looking to replace and I've been looking at the Dynaudio Audience 52 / used 1.3 contours, and the Vienna Acoustics Haydn's to pair with my Servo-15 sub. Just wondering if the Aperions are even in the same ballpark?
    With a 30 day free trial (including shipping) its kind of hard to resist comparing them side by side.
    Phil
     
  2. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    Based on what you currently have, and what you're looking at, I would say that the Aperion's are definitely a step down. I also have issue with the whole DiAural crossover concept. Email if you want details on that.

    It seems like you're looking for a totally amazing bookshelf style speaker. In that case, I would recommend looking at the Dunlavy SC-I/AV. Don't know if it's in your price range, but it's amazing.

    Also, check out B&W in your price range.

    That should get you started.

    FWIW, I think you'll probably have to spend double what you spent on the Paradigms before you'll really hear a difference. The Studio line is pretty solid.
     
  3. David X

    David X Stunt Coordinator

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    Richard .. have you actually listened to the Aperions?

    -David
     
  4. Phil M

    Phil M Stunt Coordinator

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    I brought home a pair of Dunlavy SC-I/AV and some stands from my local dealer and listened to them for several days side by side with my Paradigms. I guess what some people would call "accurate", I would call "thin" or "analytical". I really wanted to like the Dunlavy's to, but to me, the 40's sounded better in every area. The same dealer is now wanting me to bring home a pair of N805's to compare.
    I was really impressed by many of the same descriptive words that many of the reviewers (from different mags) used to describe the Aperions/Edge speakers.
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...rs-5-2001.html
    "From the treble to midrange the 502's sailed along smoothly.....vocals are soothing without losing the requisite bite and impact "
    http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/fram...dex-j.html
    "The horns were lush and pure ...excellent extension in the upper treble without ever appearing harsh or bright at high volumes. Clarity and detail through the midrange were excellent."
    http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...akersystem.htm
    "The treble never became harsh or spitty, but it did not lack detail either. The Vifa soft-dome tweeter seems to be a great choice here,"
    http://www.audiorevolution.com/equip...dio/index.html
    "The warmth of the sound was natural, ..... The honest lyrics of “Silvertown Blues” were reproduced without a hint of edginess or coloration.
    http://www.cheaphometheater.com/Aper...d%20System.htm
    "by the incredibly smooth sound and transitions the system provided us. We were immediately impressed with the midrange, it really seems that they nailed it. Not too forward, it just sounds right, providing the desired crispness when needed"
    Now granted several of the reviewers did comment on them needing power, but I'm using a Rotel RMB 1075 (5) channel amp which should be sufficient.
    To me it just didn't seem that common for that many reviewers to give a positive review on such a set of inexpensive speakers. Plus I also found 2 other magazine reviews in mags that I have.
    I've done a lot of research into speakers and usually before I'm through I always find a couple reviews that describe the sound in such a way that makes me loose interest... usually using words like "bright, forward, aggressive in the ..., piercing, spitty, shrill... ."
    I guess this just seemed like one of those too good to be true products. But then again, listen to owners of Norh's or Diva's, they'll swear by thiers.
    Anyone ever listened to a pair?
    Other sugestions, input.
    Phil
     
  5. David X

    David X Stunt Coordinator

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    Phil:

    I have 5 Aperion 512Ds. The rest of my system is:

    - Yamaha RX-V995 receiver @ 100 watts x 5

    - Dharman sub

    - Parts Express Speaker King 12 guage speaker wire

    - Panny RP91

    - Older Sony CD changer with optical output

    I haven't ever heard any of the other speakers or equipment you mentioned, so I have no basis of comparison with anything else pertinent here, which is why I didn't chime in earlier, but since you asked ...

    I can only tell you very subjectively, that I agree with the reviews .. to me they sound very natural. They don't push the highs or the lows or the mids. Since the center speaker is identical to all the other speakers (and I happen to like this configuration, personally) everything is always perfectly matched and you can hear all the vocal nuances from the center channel for HT listening with no problems of any kind. My surrounds reveal whispers and sounds that I never heard before. It was very easy to callibrate the speakers with the Dharman to achieve a perfectly balanced and blended natural full range sound.

    I have a huge space, probably around 20' x 30' with carpet, cloth window coverings, and a huge open beamed ceiling. One side of the room is open, but the living room is 'sunken', so there's a couch level wall, with some long steps at either end of that side. In my space, I do have to push my receiver to around the 60% mark to calibrate it to reference levels with VE or Avia. The Yamaha's volume control is logarithmic, so 60% is very high. Normal listening occurs for me between the 30% - 45% mark on the volume scale. 45% is also quite high for a logarithmic volume scale. Nonetheless, the speakers can handle everything the receiver can send it and could probably handle a lot more.

    I'd be very interested to see how my system sounded with a better separate AMP, or perhaps a 2 or 3 channel AMP for the mains or mains/center. I think that might be my next upgrade perhaps with an Outlaw 950 pre/pro when my name comes up on the list if I can afford it then.

    If you have any specific questions that I can answer, feel free to contact me.

    -David
     
  6. David X

    David X Stunt Coordinator

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    BTW, I'd love to be able to compare my 512s with the low end B&W's (3xx series, is it?) which, I believe are priced similarly to these, and I'd also love to compare them to a Diva system consisting of 2.1/C3/2.1's to at least create a bit of a level playing field there .. though the 2.1s are more expensive than the 512s, I believe.
    Basically, the 512s are really good $189 bookshelf speakers. The field has lots of speakers in this price range. Some of them have 6"+ drivers. The 512's have 5 1/4" Vifa drivers, with a greet tweeter, boxed in a beautiful enclosure and everything you would expect in a great speaker (gold plated 5-way binding posts, great packaging, etc.)
    Unfortunately, since I live on Kauai, round trip shipping costs are prohibitive for doing these sorts of comparisons, so I live by reviews and recomendations and offers of 'free shipping, including Hawaii'. [​IMG] Heck, there isn't even a decent hi-end audio store here where I can go listen to other stuff. I'd have to hop over to Ohahu to do that. I guess that's the price I pay for living here. [​IMG]
    -David
     
  7. Phil M

    Phil M Stunt Coordinator

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    David:

    Thanks for the input, it kind of strengthens my above thoughts.

    What stands are you using them on, and how stable are they on stands?

    I know a lot of people place performance soley on price, but these days that doesn't always hold true. The new Outlaw 950 is a good example. It is being compared to $2500 B&K's, $3000 Anthems, $5K MC1's, and even $8K MC12's, and it seems to be holding its own very well.

    So I wondered if a $400 bookshelf could hold it's own against $1K and higher models.

    Looks like the only way I'll know for sure is to get a set and compare.

    I'm also glad to hear that you are using them in a large area as my room is 13X21, with a waist high wall behind the speakers that opens to an even larger area with vaulted ceilings.

    I'm hoping that the 120 watt Rotel can drive them well as I see that their sensitivity is around 85-86. My Paradigm's are 91, so I'm sure there will be a difference there.

    Phil
     
  8. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    Well, I haven't heard the Aperions (Edge Audio) to be honest, but I have heard most of the other brands/models that have been mentioned.

    Here is my issue with the DiAural crossover concept if you're interested. Basically, the DiAural crossover is a modified series crossover, which ends up feeding more of the highs to the woofer. The result is higher power handling, but the woofer is being asked to reproduce frequencies past the range where it is acting like a true piston. In speaker design circles, that is considered a bad thing. One of the benefits stated by the DiAural crossover is "Doppler Decoding." This has to do with the fact that if you mike up an instrument, say a piano, and you have bass and treble hitting the mic's diaphragm at the same time, the treble notes will be modulated by the bass notes. Run a search on the "Doppler effect" and "intermodulation distortion" for more info. Basically, the DiAural crossover claims to "decode" this Doppler distortion that is inherent in all recordings.

    While it is certainly true that there is Doppler distortion in most recordings, here is where the problem lies: in most recordings, separately miked instruments/voices/sounds get added together into a single stereo mix. The crossover obviously has no way of knowing what originally modulated what, so it just plays back all the treble modulated by all the bass. IMO that is a mistake and not a step in the right direction.

    I was also intrigued when I first read about the DiAural crossover, but once I researched it more, I discovered the aforementioned "flaw." I also understand that introducing Doppler distortion where there was none before may not be obvious in all cases. Aperion Audio speakers did not receive glowing reviews all by mistake, and I acknowledge that obviously there are satisfied owners out there. However, I've given my opinion on the issue, and that's where I stand. I would definitely give them a listen if presented the opportunity, but I'm not in the market for speakers right now, and I don't know anyone who has them, unfortunately.
     
  9. David X

    David X Stunt Coordinator

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    Phil:
    I don't have them on stands. I have the fronts all sitting horizontally, with the tweeter end towards the center, toed in and angled down towads the listening area using rubber door stops, on top of my built-in entertainment center. There's lots of space above and behind them. (More than 2 feet in both dimensions.) I was eventually planning to mount the L+R mains on fully adjustable wall mounts.
    The speakers aren't very heavy .. I think they weigh around 11 Lbs? So, any decent stand would do. The ones they sell on the web site seem expensive, but probably look very nice with their speakers. I think I also found some nice ones at http://www.btech-usa.com/ but I didn't buy them.
    I don't know much about your AMP, but from what I've read here about it, I would think that it should be fine. I'd like to try mine with your AMP. [​IMG]
    Richard:
    Thanks for your honest reply and explanation about your objection to the diaural circuit. I thought your objection to the speakers might have been based on the diaural circuit from your first message, but you didn't specify if you had listened to the Aperions or not.
    -David
     
  10. Phil M

    Phil M Stunt Coordinator

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    TTT

    Just looking for more input?

    Phil
     

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