Anything better than a Tempest for $150??

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by BrianJ>Y, Feb 28, 2003.

  1. BrianJ>Y

    BrianJ>Y Stunt Coordinator

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    Gonna build a sub soon for strictly HT and need to pick out the driver. I've decided to power it with either the PE 794 or the rythmik 350watt plate amp. Gonna be a 5ft^3 ported enclosure and I'd like to get a pretty flat response from around 80-23hz. Would there be something better than the Tempest for my needs and budget of under 150? Im wondering how the tempest compares to the titanic mk2 12" and the Shiva...torn between these 3 drivers. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

    Oh and my room is about 22'x16'x9' with an opening leading into the kitchen on one of the long walls.

    -Brian
     
  2. Javier_Huerta

    Javier_Huerta Supporting Actor

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    I simulated some response curves using the Titanic, and it goes a bit deeper in a sealed box. I'd assume I'd go for a Titanic in a music only environment.
     
  3. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    If budget is your main concern (other than flat to 23hz and 5ft^3) then a Shiva will definitely get the job done. Check out the vented Shiva application white paper and look at both the SBB4 and EBS Shiva enclosures. I think the much smaller Adire alignment would even meet your criteria. I built an EBS Shiva as my first DIY project and absolutely love it. I can't imagine needing more sub that what I have. Pair it up with a PE 250W amp and you're in business.

    That said, I got my Shiva driver for $75 used and there were no used Tempests available at the time... there are some used Tempests available now. If I had been buying a new driver, the $25 difference probably wouldn't have kept me from getting the Tempest... It's everything that's great about the Shiva, only better. If you absolutely need to save the cash and are buying new, the Shiva won't disappoint, but if you don't mind buying used or $150 won't break the bank, go w/ the Tempest. Either way you'll be able to build a GREAT sub that will far exceed the requirements you have set... I've checked the frequency response of my Shiva in my room down to 15hz and it still hasn't rolled off a bit! (my room is 12' x 12' opening up into a kitchen and two hall ways)

    Hope this helps [​IMG]
     
  4. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    my advice is to save 50 bucks more and get a av15. i have 2 and wow it puts my velo ct 120 to shame. i spent 500 on it and 700 on the dual av15. it took a while for the drivers to get made but it was worh the wait.
     
  5. BrianJ>Y

    BrianJ>Y Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the responses guys. The difference between the rythmik and PE amp is $30, which option would be best with a total of about $275?

    1. Shiva + rythmik (275)
    2. Tempest + PE (270)

    or

    3. Tempest + rythmik

    So I guess my question is really if there's any difference in sound quality between the two amps that justifies the price difference? I'm assuming the extra power is probably a wash...mainly concerned about sound quality.

    -Brian
     
  6. BrianJ>Y

    BrianJ>Y Stunt Coordinator

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    After doing some research i'm about to rule out the tempest or any 15in driver because the enclosure would have to be too large in order to achieve the same flat response as a Shiva in an ebs alignment. Am I correct in assuming this? SO now that i've decided on 12" drivers, given my preference for flat reponse and limited enclosure size(5ft^3), it's down to either the Shiva or the Titanic mk2...which I'll be waiting for pick up on ebay(hopefully).

    If I do go with the Titanic MKII 12" would I be able to achieve the same flat response as the Shiva in the EBS alignment or would I need a different design?

    -Brian
     
  7. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Brian,

    Any reason you are not looking at the AV-12? If you want
    a small enclosure the AV-12 can work in 1.5 squared or even
    better in 2.0 sealed.

    ore excursion, higher power handling, spun alloy cone etc
    etc..

    Add it to your list it's worth a check out..

    www.strykeaudio.com
     
  8. Owen Bartley

    Owen Bartley Second Unit

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    I'm with Brett. Take a look at the AV-12, it displaces almost as much as the Tempest I think!
     
  9. ross ish

    ross ish Stunt Coordinator

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    Don't overlook the blueprint closeout at audioliquadator. the blueprint 1201 has similar spec to the shiva for $70.
     
  10. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    the av-12 also looks cool. i dont think i am going to cover my subs av-15
     
  11. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Your room is pretty big (3000+ cu ft). Using a single 12" driver you aren't going to get a ton of bass.

    IMO using a 15" (AV15?) in a smaller enclosure is a better choice. Bass reproduction is all about displacement. Usually a 15" will provide approx 50% more swept volume than a 12".
     
  12. Jonathan_D

    Jonathan_D Stunt Coordinator

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    Where are you picking up used Tempests or Shivas?
     
  13. BrianJ>Y

    BrianJ>Y Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi guys,

    I wasn't planning on buying any used equipment(no warranty?). Instead I planned on waiting for a partsexpress auction on ebay for the titanic 12" or I would just get the shiva for $125.

    I've considered the Stryke av12's and 15's but they do cost a lot more(% wise) than a shiva and an auctioned titanic. I'm also under the impression that if I was to go with the av12 or 15 then I'd have to spend more for higher powered amp? After reading some threads it seems like the av12 is less sensitive and would require more power to really see the benefits over a shiva or titanic.

    My main goal is to get a neutral/flat response and with 5ft^3 of enclosure space I thought a 12" would be best to accomplish this.

    If however, you're all telling me that going with an av12 and an amp like the rythmik(350watts) is going to give me significantly better performance than a shiva/titanic with the PE 250watt amp then I suppose i'll be willing to shell out the extra cash...

    Also, is the DVC 12" a clone of the shiva?

    -Brian
     
  14. Peter Jessee

    Peter Jessee Stunt Coordinator

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  15. BrianJ>Y

    BrianJ>Y Stunt Coordinator

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    Peter, your dvc sub looks awesome, the grill was a nice touch and I like the finish. If you don't mind me asking what is the finish, how do you apply it, where did you get it? Also what kind of port did you use? I'm gonna be starting construction soon and I was aiming for a look just like yours.

    Oh and I decided on an AV12...should be great.

    -Brian
     
  16. Peter Jessee

    Peter Jessee Stunt Coordinator

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  17. TonyiBe

    TonyiBe Stunt Coordinator

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    Peter,

    How do you modify the rumble filter. I seen the PE pdf of it, but how did you chose what you wanted... Never mind Dustin showed me how...
     
  18. Peter Jessee

    Peter Jessee Stunt Coordinator

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  19. Seth_L

    Seth_L Screenwriter

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    I'd recommend the Titanic Mk II, Shiva, or BPD 1201 in a 6cu-ft box tuned to 20Hz. They'll be less than 2dB shy of a AV15 in an 8cu-ft box tuned to 20Hz on the same power. The Mk II, Shiva, or BPD will the AV12 and the DVC 12", but the AV12 and the DVC12 only use a 3.5 cu-ft box tuned to 20Hz.

    See for yourself (380W of power):
    [​IMG]

    Blue - AV15 in a 8 cu-ft box @ 20Hz
    Orange - Titanic MK II in a 6 cu-ft box @20Hz
    Purple - DVC 12" in a 3.5 cu-ft box @20Hz
    Yellow - AV12 in 3.5 cu-ft box @20Hz

    Seth
     
  20. Seth_L

    Seth_L Screenwriter

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    Ok, I modeled up just about every sub mentioned here in a 5cu-ft enclosure with 250W tuned to 20Hz (except the AV12 and 12" DVC tuned to 17Hz).

    [​IMG]

    green - Tempest
    blue - AV15
    magenta - Shiva Mk III
    yellow - Titanic Mk II
    grey - BPD 1201
    purple - 12" DVC
    white - AV12

    The BPD 1201, Shiva MK II, and the Titanic MK II are all kissing cousins. Seeing that the BPD is cheap at audio liquidators I'd say that's probably the way to go.

    The AV12 and the 12" DLS needed that lower tuning or a smaller (3.5cu-ft) box.

    The AV15 really needs a larger box (8 cu-ft), and the Tempest needs ~9 cu-ft.

    Seth
     

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