Anyone using their speakers with no toe-in?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Keir H, Jun 10, 2002.

  1. Keir H

    Keir H Second Unit

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    I have Def Tech BP30's and wanted to do a little experimenting to see if I could possibly get that wrap around or phantom surround "effect" from them when playing back 2 ch sources. I have always had my speakers toed-in at about 35degrees to the listening position. I hope this helps the soundstage to widen and get sa bit deeper.

    anyone else try this out? With what kind of results?
     
  2. Mark Larson

    Mark Larson Supporting Actor

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    I try to toe my speakers in about 45deg inside, but my goddamn roommate keeps on putting them AGAINST the wall, not toed-in!! [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Just needed to vent. [​IMG]
     
  3. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    Putting them against the wall should be affecting your bass. You should tape mark the ground in the sweet spot so the speakers don't lost their position. I'd do that if there was somebody moving my speakers around.

    If I don't have my speakers toed in, I have to sit further back to find to find my sweet spot. I prefer a listening area where the tweeters aim and intersect behind my head a few feet.

    If you angled your speakers away from the listener then the sound could reflect off the side walls and give a wide soundstage. The closer your speakers are, the tighter the soundstage.
     
  4. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    I found that de-toeing my speakers resulted in a slightly bigger soundstage, but nothing major. With my current setup I didn't get much wraparound in the first place... while I really can't tell where the speakers are from listening, I notice that the soundstage only extends to just outside the speakers. Decreasing toe-in also 'dulls' the sound and makes it less lively, because you lose a lot in the upper treble. Of course, it made things a little easier on my ears at high volume. I leave my speakers toed in a bit more than halfway.
     
  5. Michael Lomker

    Michael Lomker Stunt Coordinator

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    Mark, I had the same problem for the first couple days after I got my PSB's. I'd spend an hour getting them perfectly aligned then they'd get moved. I fixed that little problem by installing the carpet spikes...hehe.

    They aren't very easy to move anymore.
     
  6. Scott-C

    Scott-C Supporting Actor

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    Keir,

    I have DefTech BP10B's and have experimented with the whole "To Toe-In or Not To Toe-In" question. Surprisingly, I noticed a huge loss of soundstage when I toed my speakers in (about 35 degrees). I settled on just a small amount of toe-in (and I do mean small - possibly 5 degrees) as the spot that provided the largest soundstage. In my case, more toe-in caused the backs of the speakers to fire into corners, and I don't think that helped me much. When I "de-toed" them, the backs fired more directly into the front wall, which I think helped the soundstage (probably due to increased reflections off the front wall).

    The downside to having my speakers set up with practically no toe-in, I've found, is that I feel I lose some detail due to the bi-polar nature of my speakers. Dialogue is a little muddier than I'd prefer and I think the front soundstage is a little overly-reflective, leading to a slightly bright sound on DVD soundtracks.

    Definitely experiment with all kinds of speaker placements until you find one that works for you and works in conjunction with the nuances of your room (which probably will have the biggest effect on how your speakers sound).

    Good luck!
     
  7. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    those are bi-polar. I wouldn't toe them in very much at all. when playing around with my friends Deftech we found a slight toe-in preferable. Enough so that you don't have the tweeters staring at you but aren't so off-axis that you don't get a good image.

    IMHO, bi-polars usually don't need much toe-in. Maybe 5-6 feet behind your head. Try it all out...severe toe-in to none at all. What does need special attention is the back wall though and make sure the speakers are a few feet away from said back wall. Toed in slightly. This should get you a good soundstage without bose-like "sound from everywhere".

    35 degrees sounds awfull severe, but then again I'm not in your room.
     
  8. Keir H

    Keir H Second Unit

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    thanks guys for the suggestions. I'll play with those options today. I like detail but also like the soundstage to be wider..I guess ya can't have both in abundance with bipolars. Hmmm..will Diva 4.1's match a Def Tech CLR2000?? j/k..haha. [​IMG]
     
  9. Arnel Enero

    Arnel Enero Stunt Coordinator

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    I think toe-in is necessary only to compensate for off-axis response anomalies of most speakers. Speakers with limited/poor horizontal dispersion need toe-in more than better wide-dispersion designs.
    Given an ideal speaker that has perfect 360-degree horizontal dispersion (perfect omnipolar, doesn't exist), in a perfectly neutral room (also doesn't exist), you don't need toe-in. [​IMG]
     

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