Anyone remember Velodyne? (1 Viewer)

[William Moore]

Hello. I own a Velodyne SPL1200 series 2 Sub which I have had for many years. I'm using this with my suite of Boston Acoustics speakers, the VR Series, and a Marantz SR7007 7.1 channel receiver. As you can see, all my gear is more or less "recent vintage" but it still sounds good and gets the job done. Lately, however, my sub has been sounding somewhat "bass heavy" and I'm not sure why. I have the sub connected to the Marantz's sub-out, which, as far as I know, is full range, going into the LFE input on the sub. As per Velodyne's instructions, I'm now using the sub's internal crossover, since the sub's "direct" input is for coming from another crossover, which I'm not using; however, the instructions in the Marantz manual says that with a sub which has a "direct" mode, to use that one by disabling the sub's volume control and the crossover frequency. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I disable the sub's volume control, I assume by turning it down all the way, how will any signal be reproduced so one can hear it. Also, the only crossover control on the sub is the "low pass", so would this need to be set at minimum? Am I "over-thinking" all of this?
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated, especially from a Velodyne user. Thanks!

 

[JohnRice]

Oh. Goodness. I don’t have time to correct this at the moment, unfortunately.

No doubt someone will get you back on track before I have the time.

 

[Steve Chomicz]

I moved my system last month and had to read the subwoofer arguments on direct vs speaker level connections. It is what brought me to this forum years ago and I still lurk and learn from posters here. The "which player to buy for blue ray/UHD/HDR" has been my latest learning experience as well as enjoying all the blue ray reviews.

Anyway, I have a Velodyne CHT-10 powered subwoofer. Velodyne manual is neutral as how to connect for best sound and subwoofer management. However, placement of the sub is the area they focus on as everyone sticks it in a corner. they say speaker height equal is preferred though not practical for a home. Moving your sub around the room to where you hear the sound is best is their recommendation rather than stick in a corner.

My Polk speakers manual is very adamant on how to connect the subwoofer. They strongly recommend you go from amplifier front speaker outputs to the subwoofer inputs and then from the sub outputs to your front speakers. Turn off the subwoofer control option in your amplifier and set the front speaker size to large. this lets the sub take the bass workload load off the fronts letting them better handle the higher frequencies so the sub gets the full bass frequencies and handles the crossover and bass volume. The bass volume should be set to be close the volume level that you usually listen to.

As to your question, the amplifier should have a sub volume and crossover setting allowing you to use the amp's bass processing/crossover and the sub should have a direct or line level input switch that you set to direct and turn the crossover and volume knobs to zero.

I hear bass volume differences between xfinity broadcasts, Blu-ray discs, Netflix, Amazon and all the other streamers. Netflix output is Dolby 5.1 and I find it is bass heavier than the others so it is a good one to use for the bass volume level.

hope this helps.

 

[JohnRice]

OK, the simple part of how to correctly connect the subwoofer to your SR7007 is to activate the line level output by setting the subwoofer to "Yes" in the speaker setup. Then you usually want to set all your speakers to "Small" and start with the sub crossover set to 80Hz. All of this is set up in the receiver's setup menu. Looking at the amp on the SPL1200, you connect the line level (RCA) subwoofer output from your receiver to the LFE input on the sub, set the crossover switch to "Subwoofer Direct" since the receiver is handling the crossover, and set the volume knob to the middle (12 O'Clock). You will then adjust the sub's volume in the receiver.

To clarify, the receiver is controlling the crossover and sound level of the sub, as well as the other speakers. You absolutely, positively should let the receiver handle the crossover, and you positively should use the line level (not speaker level) connection. Since the sub also has a volume control, resulting in two volume controls, that part of it can get a little confusing. So, it's usually simplest to set the sub's volume to the middle. If it needs to be changed, that'll be handled later.

Then there's the matter of placing the sub in the room. Somewhere in the front of the room, not in the center of the front wall, but not equal distance from any two walls, unless it's in the corner. It looks like it's a sealed sub, so I would start with it close to the front wall and a few feet from a side wall. To either side of one of the front speakers often works well.

 

[JohnRice]

...and yeah, I remember Velodyne. I had a ULD-18 mkII back in the day.

 

[Steve Chomicz]

i think it depends on the age of the products and the manufacturer's suggestions. My Polks and Velodyne CH-10 are 2004 era and my Sony STR DN1050 receiver is circa 2015 with 2019 firmware updates to handle the new sound formats, my Panasonic blue ray is 2019 and my LG OLED is 2018.

I reread the Polk manual for my speakers and it states: do not use LFE. Use the speaker level connections to the subwoofer and set the speakers to large. I previously had it set with LFE and I have to say the sound is much better now.

That said I just looked at 2020 subwoofers and many only have LFE input. So things have progressed as tech always does. I imagine today's speakers are optimized for the receiver using LFE and letting it handle base management vs the subwoofer. Much easier from a wiring perspective and less wires.

Having old gear is not always a negative. I was pleased to read that my 1975 Marantz 1060 stero amplifier is regarded today as still being one of the best amplifiers for rock music as it delivers a warmth not found in the new amplifiers. I was surprised at the number of people who seek them out and rebuild them with new and larger capacitors etc. to handle today's music.

The Beatles Abbey Road 50th anniversary deluxe set of the vinyl remaster includes a disc remaster in Dolby Atmos and DTS HD Master Audio 5.1 that my Sony home theatre system blows away the sound from my Marantz stereo vinyl album remaster. The 5.1 sound delight's the ears.

Peace

 

[JohnRice]

The (virtually) only time the way Polk describes would be the correct way to connect a sub is with an integrated system with a passive sub, where it contains the crossover specifically designed for the satellite speakers. Common in "computer" systems but almost unheard of in surround systems.

 

[William Moore]

OK, the simple part of how to correctly connect the subwoofer to your SR7007 is to activate the line level output by setting the subwoofer to "Yes" in the speaker setup. Then you usually want to set all your speakers to "Small" and start with the sub crossover set to 80Hz. All of this is set up in the receiver's setup menu. Looking at the amp on the SPL1200, you connect the line level (RCA) subwoofer output from your receiver to the LFE input on the sub, set the crossover switch to "Subwoofer Direct" since the receiver is handling the crossover, and set the volume knob to the middle (12 O'Clock). You will then adjust the sub's volume in the receiver.

To clarify, the receiver is controlling the crossover and sound level of the sub, as well as the other speakers. You absolutely, positively should let the receiver handle the crossover, and you positively should use the line level (not speaker level) connection. Since the sub also has a volume control, resulting in two volume controls, that part of it can get a little confusing. So, it's usually simplest to set the sub's volume to the middle. If it needs to be changed, that'll be handled later.

Then there's the matter of placing the sub in the room. Somewhere in the front of the room, not in the center of the front wall, but not equal distance from any two walls, unless it's in the corner. It looks like it's a sealed sub, so I would start with it close to the front wall and a few feet from a side wall. To either side of one of the front speakers often works well.

 

[William Moore]

John: I replied to your answer the other day, but apparently it got deleted, so here goes again. Your instructions are for if one chooses not to use the Audyssey set-up, which I do choose to use, so things are a little different. The manual's instructions say "When using a sub with a direct mode, which my Velodyne has, to disable the sub's volume control (by turning down the sub volume to "0"?) and to disable the crossover control. The Velodyne only has a low pass frequency setting, so I'm not sure how I could disable that! Any comments? And, would I be better off not using Audyssey at all and just adjust everything manually?

 

[JohnRice]

I'll give this one more try. "Disable the sub's crossover control" means to set the sub's crossover (on the sub itself, not in the receiver) to "Direct" which in fact "disables the sub's crossover control". You do not disable the crossover control in the receiver.

You can't "disable" the volume control on the sub. If you set it to 0 you will get nothing, or something so low that it won't work. Because the volume is set to 0, which is 0 volume. So, you set it in the middle as a starting point, and it can probably just stay there. We don't know yet.

Whether or not you use Audyssey doesn't even factor into it. It would be the same either way.

 

[William Moore]

Well, that just leaves me wondering what the instructions meant by saying "disable the volume control." Maybe it was a misprint. I guess I'll contact Marantz and see what they have to say about this. Thanks for your advice.

 

[JohnRice]

I'm certain they'll be extremely helpful.

 

[smithbrad]

William, if it helps any, what John said it spot on. For the past 15 years I had a Denon receiver that I just replaced with a Marantz. In both cases I followed that same advice. You want the receiver to control everything so Audyssey can do its job. Audyssey is going to set the correct volume levels for all speakers. For all the non-powered speakers (fronts and surrounds) the receiver is doing all the work.

For the sub you want it to be primarily powered by its own amplifier not the receiver, and that requires you to set its volume control appropriately. However, you need Audyssey to be able to tweak it up and down, as needed. If the volume at the sub is too low or too high, Audssey will struggle to try and compensate. As John stated, setting it in the middle is a good starting point. If not quite right, you can always adjust the volume at the sub up or down in increments and rerun Audyssey. The receiver should never attempt to power a sub with a built in amplifier, but just to tweak the level to conform to what audyssey is identifying as a need.

I also had an old Polk system over 25 years ago. It contained small satellites with a passive sub. As was previously stated, it required all channels to be run to the sub and then the speakers were connected to the sub due to the specialized cross-over. Once upgrading to a receiver with a separate LFE and adding a powered sub, I adjusted to the more standard approach John recommended.

 

[William Moore]

I'm going to attempt calling Marantz regarding this issue tomorrow and see what they say; then I'll post their answer, assuming they give me one!

 

[JohnRice]

I'm actually anxious to hear their answer. I suspect it'll be amusing.

 

[William Moore]

John: I have received a reply from Marantz Support in regard to my question "what does disabling the volume control on the sub mean?" They said to indeed turn down the sub volume all the way and let the receiver handle the volume for the sub, to which I then asked "How will turning down the sub volume al the way affect making the Audyssey settings, since these are based upon test tones being reproduced by each speaker, including the sub, in order to correctly balance out the audio between speakers?" I will have to wait until tomorrow to get a response to that question. Right now, I am using the sub's internal xover rather than the direct mode with a low pass setting of 50hz and the sub volume about three steps up from zero. Still getting audio that is too bass heavy, as evidenced by various "Jurassic World" BDs and by the BD of "Expendables 3." (Great movie IMHO) I'm thinking of going back to the "direct" mode on the sub and re-running Audyssey, using six positions rather than eight, which seems like overkill for my smallish living room. What do you think?

 

[JohnRice]

The CS person is reading from a script, and has no idea what he/she is actually talking about.

Plan for an extended, frustrating journey that is unlikely to arrive at the proper destination.

 

[Dave Upton]

John: I have received a reply from Marantz Support in regard to my question "what does disabling the volume control on the sub mean?" They said to indeed turn down the sub volume all the way and let the receiver handle the volume for the sub, to which I then asked "How will turning down the sub volume al the way affect making the Audyssey settings, since these are based upon test tones being reproduced by each speaker, including the sub, in order to correctly balance out the audio between speakers?" I will have to wait until tomorrow to get a response to that question. Right now, I am using the sub's internal xover rather than the direct mode with a low pass setting of 50hz and the sub volume about three steps up from zero. Still getting audio that is too bass heavy, as evidenced by various "Jurassic World" BDs and by the BD of "Expendables 3." (Great movie IMHO) I'm thinking of going back to the "direct" mode on the sub and re-running Audyssey, using six positions rather than eight, which seems like overkill for my smallish living room. What do you think?

You need to turn the crossover on your sub all the way up to its maximum frequency (bypassing it) - this is the only way to use it with a receiver doing bass management like your Marantz.

Once you have done that, you can use an SPL meter app on your cell phone to adjust the volume on the sub and the trim in your Marantz speaker setup menu so that the sub is at approximately the same level as your speakers. This will avoid the "bass heavy" sound you are referring to.

 

[William Moore]

Well, are you talking about the main xover, or the low pass xover? (I can't adjust the regular xover setting in the sub, but I do know that the Audyssey program sets up the sub's xover @ 80hz.) Today I had three email exchanges with a Marantz rep and he somewhat corrected his initial statement in explaining what "disabling the sub's volume control" actually meant. To make a long story short, I ended up switching my Velodyne to the "Direct" mode and then re-running the Audyssey set-up for eight positions within the listening area. Also, the on-screen instructions state that before beginning the set-up, you need to turn up the volume control on the sub to "12 o'clock" or half-way up, which I did. After running Audyssey, I watched part of "Expendables 3" in Dolby True HD, which has a ridiculous amount of over-the-top action sequences with the accompanying automatic gun fire and explosions, so maybe that wasn't the best disc to pick for evaluating bass response accuracy. I'll go with this set up for awhile and see if I can live with it. Comments?

 

[JohnRice]

I've been telling you exactly these same things, over and over and over and over, but you've refused to accept it. Now after all this, and finally doing what I've been saying all along, you want more comments?