Anyone in Sav, Ga area to help with sub box? (1 Viewer)

[mulalleybs]

Unless you live in a concrete bunker, you will never come close to using the full potential of that sub. Most houses can't handle that type of stress from a sub.

Haha awesome..
Unfortunately I can't start making a box until next week, but I have a couple questions regarding the amp/sub. Should I run the amp in bridged mode for the single sub? Does I set up the amp like you would a car stereo by turning up the stereo volume, with the gain all the way down, to your max listening level, then turning the gain up until it starts to distort? or would it be until its starting to reach xmax? if its in bridged i still only mess with one gain knob right?

 

[Robert_J]

Should I run the amp in bridged mode for the single sub?

No. Each channel of the amp goes to one voice coil of the sub. Make sure you get the polarity correct. The EP series runs better in stereo mode. Parts Express has a dual binding post terminal for the enclosure that works great.

Does I set up the amp like you would a car stereo by turning up the stereo volume, with the gain all the way down, to your max listening level, then turning the gain up until it starts to distort?

That's not the best way to set the gain on a car amp but no, that's not how you do it. First, the EP and other pro amps don't have gain controls. They are input attenuators. That's a huge difference. My EP knobs were turned up all the way and backed off 2 detents to keep a slight hum below audible level. I set the level in the receiver using my Pioneer's MCACC auto calibration system.

 

[mulalleybs]

No. Each channel of the amp goes to one voice coil of the sub. Make sure you get the polarity correct. The EP series runs better in stereo mode. Parts Express has a dual binding post terminal for the enclosure that works great.
That's not the best way to set the gain on a car amp but no, that's not how you do it. First, the EP and other pro amps don't have gain controls. They are input attenuators. That's a huge difference. My EP knobs were turned up all the way and backed off 2 detents to keep a slight hum below audible level. I set the level in the receiver using my Pioneer's MCACC auto calibration system.

so I turn up the knobs on each coil until I hear a hum then turn it down? with no sound playing?
someone on another forum said not to use both channels of the amp on the older fi q sub that I have, what's your thoughts on that? don't want to mess up the sub! I trust what you say on the subject.

 

[schan1269]

A dual voice coil sub should be run stereo...hence you need to run the amp in stereo, unless you want to buy a 2nd 4000.

 

[mulalleybs]

A dual voice coil sub should be run stereo...hence you need to run the amp in stereo, unless you want to buy a 2nd 4000.

I understood that,, but said person stated the 4000 is too much for the sub.

 

[schan1269]

No amp is ever too much for any speaker as long as...
1. You don't clip the amp
2. You don't run more than 1% distortion(some will say up to 5% is fine)
3. You don't "over gain" the amp.
You "could" run the 4000 mono, then run the sub in series. That is what I was assuming you were doing from the beginning.
Obviously you don't buy a set of BIC DV62 and hook up the 4000 and run it up to full bore either. But, if you feed a distortion free signal to a speaker, in theory, you can apply as much power as you want...
But "distortion free power" is a myth.

 

[mulalleybs]

No amp is ever too much for any speaker as long as...
1. You don't clip the amp
2. You don't run more than 1% distortion(some will say up to 5% is fine)
3. You don't "over gain" the amp.
You "could" run the 4000 mono, then run the sub in series. That is what I was assuming you were doing from the beginning.
Obviously you don't buy a set of BIC DV62 and hook up the 4000 and run it up to full bore either. But, if you feed a distortion free signal to a speaker, in theory, you can apply as much power as you want...
But "distortion free power" is a myth.

ah ok thanks, so Robert said the amp doesn't have a gain knob, so how do I set that properly? how do I make sure its not clipping? is there a clip meter on the amp? keep the distortion down by volume? any way to measure distortion easily? sorry for asking so many questions, if there is a "noob sub questions thread" I'll search it when I get back to my laptop in a few hours.

 

[schan1269]

You need to read the owners manual for the EP4000...
Especially since you, for some reason, are listening to others tell you...
1. It is too much amp
2. Doesn't have gain control
And...
1. It has distortion controls
2. It has anti-clipping
3. Has thermal overload protection.

 

[Robert_J]

A dual voice coil sub should be run stereo...hence you need to run the amp in stereo, unless you want to buy a 2nd 4000.

I'm currently running a DVC to a mono amp in my car and there are thousands doing the same. Dual or quad coils just gives you more wiring options for connecting to a an amp.
The reason I suggested stereo because of past performance testing of the EP-2500 amp in bridged mono mode to 4 ohms. While it is extremely stable running at 2 ohms stereo, 4 ohm mono is difficult for it and will sometimes cause it to shut down. It's an odd quirk with this amp.

 

[Robert_J]

so I turn up the knobs on each coil until I hear a hum then turn it down? with no sound playing?
someone on another forum said not to use both channels of the amp on the older fi q sub that I have, what's your thoughts on that? don't want to mess up the sub! I trust what you say on the subject.

Once the box is built, we will go over this. And what other forum? Because I am probably a member.

 

[Robert_J]

I understood that,, but said person stated the 4000 is too much for the sub.

1,600w into a 3" coil is pushing it thermally no matter what the enclosure is designed for. Since the sub/amp combination is too much for most, you will never reach the thermal or mechanical limits of the sub unless you don't care about the dishes in the kitchen.

 

[Robert_J]

No amp is ever too much for any speaker as long as...
1. You don't clip the amp
2. You don't run more than 1% distortion(some will say up to 5% is fine)
3. You don't "over gain" the amp.
You "could" run the 4000 mono, then run the sub in series. That is what I was assuming you were doing from the beginning.
Obviously you don't buy a set of BIC DV62 and hook up the 4000 and run it up to full bore either. But, if you feed a distortion free signal to a speaker, in theory, you can apply as much power as you want...
But "distortion free power" is a myth.

I'm going to disagree. You can hook as large an amp as you want to any speaker as long as you don't push it past it's thermal or mechanical limits. For trips, I run a smaller sub in the car for the added trunk space. It's a 10", 250 watt sub connected to a 1,000 watt amp. It works fine as long as I am careful with the volume control and with my wife in the car, I have to be. I did let a friend in the car with this setup and he melted the voice coil with no hint of distortion being played. First, we were well below the 1,000 watt limit on the amp and the sub is an XBL^2 enabled, low distortion design. As I've stated earlier, Dan Wiggins posted here years ago about his invention and how it won't show any sign of distress until it is too late. There was less than one second warning before the sub seized up. It's a good thing that Scott at Fi Car Audio had some left over voice coils because he built me a re-cone kit for it.

 

[Robert_J]

ah ok thanks, so Robert said the amp doesn't have a gain knob, so how do I set that properly? how do I make sure its not clipping? is there a clip meter on the amp? keep the distortion down by volume? any way to measure distortion easily? sorry for asking so many questions, if there is a "noob sub questions thread" I'll search it when I get back to my laptop in a few hours.

Yes, there's a clip meter. I've gotten mine to barely start to light up during demo sessions. I usually have to go through the house and straighten every picture when I'm done.
There's not really a noob sub thread because you are going DIY which is way beyond noob.

 

[mulalleybs]

Alright I'm out of the class now, well first Robert, I'd like to apologize because I didn't understand what you had meant when you were talking about the bunker earlier (as in the fact that I would not want to or be able to turn it up to thermal failure due to how much the sub would vibrate) I had no idea that these subs can shake the house that much.
Speaking of car audio, I was thinking of putting a 12" SSD in my truck, because I have always been unhappy with the 2 alpine type-rs that I have. (2 of them in a under the seat sealed box.) I think I'd take out the center partition in between the front seats and place a ported box there. Need to find out how hard it is to switch from a bench seat to a bucket seat first though.. Anyway..
Thanks for answering all my questions. I can't wait to get back home and listen to different types of music with the new speakers/sub (metal, rap, and dub) once everything is set up properly.
Anyway, the clip meter is a good indication that you're putting too much power to the sub?

 

[Robert_J]

The clip meter is not really a good indicator of overpowering. It just means the signal is clipping. Once you calibrate your system, your main speakers will be maxed out before your sub starts to strain. On the other hand, it's really the only way to keep the sub distortion to a minimum without going with a low distortion sub. And since Exodus Audio went out of business, XBL^2 subs are difficult to come by. If you ever get a chance, pick up an old RE XXX or Ascendant Audio Avalanche motor (the sub magnet structure) because they can be rebuilt.
What size type R's? Old or newer models? What amp are you using? Enclosure? There are a lot of DIY guys picking up both the older and newer type R's because of their sound quality. I picked up a blown 12" older model that I'm going to rebuild.
I play around with car audio. I think I posted my build thread at Club Lexus in one of your earlier threads. I also helped this guy build his box - It's some shaky video work but the box is rock solid. Too bad the car wasn't. On the first test, parts of his Kia were falling off in the parking lot.

 

[mulalleybs]

The clip meter is not really a good indicator of overpowering. It just means the signal is clipping. Once you calibrate your system, your main speakers will be maxed out before your sub starts to strain. On the other hand, it's really the only way to keep the sub distortion to a minimum without going with a low distortion sub. And since Exodus Audio went out of business, XBL^2 subs are difficult to come by. If you ever get a chance, pick up an old RE XXX or Ascendant Audio Avalanche motor (the sub magnet structure) because they can be rebuilt.
What size type R's? Old or newer models? What amp are you using? Enclosure? There are a lot of DIY guys picking up both the older and newer type R's because of their sound quality. I picked up a blown 12" older model that I'm going to rebuild.
I play around with car audio. I think I posted my build thread at Club Lexus in one of your earlier threads. I also helped this guy build his box - It's some shaky video work but the box is rock solid. Too bad the car wasn't. On the first test, parts of his Kia were falling off in the parking lot.

It's the newer type Rs 12"s on the alpine pdx 1000 or whatever its called. The issue is its a crew cab 2500 and there isn't really any room so the box is an under seat sealed enclosure which means that it isn't very large and on top of that they are down firing so when when I turn it up a lot they will hit the ground, wasn't very happy when I found that out.
Do you think a single SSD 12 in a ported box would be better?
I watched that video after you posted it in another thread by the way.

 

[Robert_J]

There's nothing wrong with the Alpine subs when they are in the correct sized box. The new ones have 2.5" coils while the SSD has a 3" coil. It will handle a little more power but not that much. Plus the extra weight makes it a little less efficient. I'd look at the recommended enclosure for each. I'll bet the Alpine will work just as well in the same sized box.

 

[mulalleybs]

Oh man, well I finally got back to my place excited, but I have a headache now after trying to mess with the receiver lol. Right now I just have the towers plugged in playing music off a hdmi cable into the receiver to break them in. Ummmmm where to begin.......
I guess I need to buy another rca-xlr cable for the 2nd channel of the sub. It is supposed to be single rca right? one for L and one for R? Now I need to go buy stuff to make the box.
There's really no room for all this stuff that I have at this place so I'm not terribly worried about calibrating with the mic, but if someone could give me a run through on how to set it up that would be appreciated.
I'm sure I'll be making another post in a few minutes.

 

[schan1269]

You should be running the EP4000 mono, so you only need the one RCA-XLR.
Using the mic for the Audyssey is self explanatory. You just need a tripod.

 

[mulalleybs]

oh i was told to run it stereo, irrelevant at the moment since I have no box. Here's something I don't understand. I have the sub sitting in the chair (just wanted to test it at low volumes free air to make sure everything was in working order) have one coil hooked up to output 1 then the xlr-rca from output 1 to SW R. The sig light isnt on on the amp and no sound coming from the sub. I'm completely lost.