Anyone heard of this tweak??? (1 Viewer)

[Mark Austin]

Ryan,
It's easy to see the difference when the clock is unplugged, at least on my set. It's an obvious difference. No placebo there.
What I find amazing is that everytime someone finds something that may enhance the HT experience, whether it be cables or a simple clock, it must be the placebo effect, according to some. And it usually comes from those that have never even tried it.

I'll never understand why there aren't more blind (preferably double blind) tests of these claims.

There is no one keeping you from doing a DBT if you so choose.

 

[DaleB]

Did you just plug it in cold, Ryan ? Or reverse the power leads first?

 

[Lee Bailey]

I found on the clock that I had, that it did not even use a polarized plug on it. If that is the case, try it one way, if your picture gets worse after about 30 mins, then reverse the plug.
As far as I know, any digital clock that uses a battery backup will work.
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The Bailey's Web Page and Home Theatre
The Bailey's DVD Collection

 

[Ryan Wright]

What the heck does the brightness on the display and the lack of a battery have to do with anything? I'm sorry, but if you know anything about electricity, you'd know that this just isn't possible. A $20 clock is not going to filter your electricity to the point of noticable improvements in anything. Even if it did, you'd have to plug the equipment into the clock, and the clock into the wall.
Even bigger differences with up to 7 clocks? Come on...
Someone with a scope PLEASE analyze this and report your findings so we can put an end to this silliness.
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-Ryan (http://www.ryanwright.com )

 

[Mark Austin]

Check it out for yourself. It works. Sorry to disappoint you.
quote: Someone with a scope PLEASE analyze this and report your findings so we can put an end to this silliness.[/quote]
It sounds as though you have already made up your mind. Is it beyond the realm of possibility there may be some things you don't comprehend about this?

 

[Tom J. Davis]

One of these days I'll have to try this just for shits -n- giggles.
Where's Knappy? Sounds like this thread is getting into his territory.

 

[RicP]

quote: What the heck does the brightness on the display and the lack of a battery have to do with anything? I'm sorry, but if you know anything about electricity, you'd know that this just isn't possible[/quote] Be careful about what you think is or isn't possible, especially in terms of electricity and magnetic fields. Very tricky things they are.

As far as the RS Clock the LED read out is not really whats going on here. Pulse enhancement deals more with the recharging of batteries. Even though the clock doesn't understand it can't recharge the battery its trying anyway. To give example if you have the 9v battery in the clock and still have it plugged into the wall this trick wont work. Reason why is you closed the circuit with the battery, but as long as the circuit is open (no battery) it generates a low magnetic pluse over the electrical line which is able to cancel out certain EMI and RF noise which in turns lowers the noise floor through out your house (theoretically).
The AudioPrism and many many other products are on the market that deal with this EXACT SITUATION. Feel free to not try it...feel free to even chortle if you'd like. But don't say that it "isn't possible", until you understand exactly what it is you're deeming impossible.
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Ric Perrott
My Theater ;My DVD's
"RicP's posts are SUPERBLY ERUDITE!" - David Manning, Ridgefield Press

 

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Ok guys I bought it and connected it in the same outlet that my projector is ...but I can't see any difference. Should I try it with the outlet where my receiver is? I am also using a cheater to reverse the polarity? like I read somewhere. BTW I have a FPTV. Any ideas on what to look for as an improvement, or any movie scene where it might be easier to tell if there is any improvement? Also someone mentioned that if I unplugged it, I should be able to notice a difference right away; is it true?
Regards

 

[David Eaton]

Okay...now here is what we need to start some testing. I recently saw a demo of the AUDIOPRISM NOISE SNIFFER. Plug this puppy into the wall, and listen to the noise in your AC power. When I listened to it, it was very noisy, then the guy who was doing the demo plugged in a Monster Power Conditioner, the noise went away. If the clocks capacitors are doing what some think they are doing, then you would hear less noise through the sniffer.
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My Home Theater Pics

 

[Todd Hochard]

You know, everyone assumes that the power coming into their house is dirty, and it typically, that couldn't be further from the truth. Often times, the noise is generated due to not so good connections at the plug or breaker. Is the line spliced? Better check those wire nuts, too.
Another point- the VCR power supply is likely to put more noise on the line than any other piece of equipment in the rack. Why not try filtering THAT? I would submit that unplugging your VCR is likely to have a bigger effect than the "clock."
A poorly designed power supply in the clock could be putting a pulse back onto the line. BUT, that's noise in and of itself. The fact that it supposedly makes everything "better" is something that is completely subjective, and from a common sense standpoint, likely not true. It is better to eliminate the problem (the excessively noisy AC) at its source (or as close as you can get), rather than band-aiding it, or doing what appears to be the double-negative trick here.
Todd

 

[Mike Knapp]

quote: Where's Knappy? Sounds like this thread is getting into his territory. [/quote]
Im here reading. I have all but given up the ghost on "tweak reporting". Oh, I am still interested and I still try all kinds of things but I am reluctant to post here about them.
The "science" camp has become too hostile for my liking. Each time they "demand" proof (BTW proof only qualifies if it meets THEIR standard of it)....even when it is clearly stated that none will be offered.
But what I find worst of all is the belittling, attitude they have. They use terms like "Emperors new clothes" or "Placebo effect" which are really just clever metaphors for "Arent you stupid".
Nope, I am tired and have no further desire to subject myself to ridicule. To be honest, I really could give a rats ass if their system sounds (or looks) better anyway. I am concerned with mine though, and so I will continue to tweak.
I will issue an offer to the "science" camp though....drop by sometime. Look and listen to my system. I have tweaked the shit out of it. If you like what you see and hear....why would you question the methods?
Mike

 

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

It's the unfortunate human nature

Some rather make fun of people who at least are willing to try new things looking for improvement. Posts like "Placebo" are so irrelevant that we should just ignore them. If someone tries it and finds no improvement then by all means he has a right to say it is not real cause at least in his HT it didn't work. But sitting in a computer typing "it won't work" to any strange tweak some one posts its so childish and in a way offensive towars the poster. Why not try it yourself once in a while before putting down someones idea? Then if it doesn't work, you'll be ok to say "placebo" or whatever you want.
Regards

 

[David James]

I have a similar philosophy but different opinion as the illustrious Mr. Knapp. I could care less what tweaks people put on their systems and what claims they make about them. If they are happy, I'm happy for them. While I don't quite get the same sense of hostility or ridicule from those that "demand" proof, I can understand the sensitivity when our judgement is questioned. What I find interesting, being from the "science" camp, is how uncritical in our reasoning we have become of some things and accept without question some claims. Perhaps it's rooted in our increasing distrust of institutions such as politics and science, I don't know. I'll leave it at this. I will not question those who believe whatever tweaks they've applied have improved the quality of their system if you will understand that before I invest my time and money I require some "scientific" proof the tweak works.

 

[phil-w]

I try to take a middle of the road approach. I have an open mind and I try things but I am aware of the way the mind works. I don't think referring to the Placebo Effect is a bad thing (although Placebo Response would be more accurate).
Yes I have tried the RS clock, in fact I have two of them (Great Clocks btw). I have not found them to make any difference in my system.
I agree that just dismissing things without trying them because we think that there is no science to back them up is closed minded. I also think that not attempting to apply a scientific approach to testing these ideas is foolish.

 

[Mark Austin]

quote: I agree that just dismissing things without trying them because we think that there is no science to back them up is closed minded. I also think that not attempting to apply a scientific approach to testing these ideas is foolish.[/quote]
Often times here though, "applying the scientific approach" simply means ridiculing those that may have seen a benefit from said tweak that may not have the "science" to back it up. Which is the whole rub. Anytime someone may have noticed a benefit from trying something unconventional, he is automatically lambasted for not performing DBT's, or having gone to the trouble of producing a white paper on the issue, or automatically dismissed as suffering from a "placebo response". When in fact, those countering the claim have no basis for their attack. In that sense the "science" crowd is doing the exact same thing they are raking the tweakers over the coals for, just the other side of the fence. They are making a counter-claim with no evidence to support it, for they have not tested it themselves.
Are we really going to figure out the "science" of the proposed idea on this board?

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

"I can understand the sensitivity when our judgement is questioned."
Interesting way to see it. One have to be careful on others sensibility or they have to learn to not feel attacked... in either case we can expect a more rational talking.
"What I find interesting, being from the "science" camp, is how uncritical in our reasoning we have become of some things and accept without question some claims. Perhaps it's rooted in our increasing distrust of institutions such as politics and science, I don't know. I'll leave it at this."
Again this is interesting, even for a complete topic! (not on this forum of course) ;-)
It seems that people need to believe because is part of their way to se the world. We learn to assume some theories right as childs, and some people need more beliefs than others.
It would be interesting to see if tweakers believe in paranormal stuff too.
And PLEASE, I'm not insulting anybody, just making some general observations!
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[Saurav]

It would be interesting to see if tweakers believe in paranormal stuff too.

And to see if tweakers believe paranormal stuff might be the reason why their tweaks 'work'
I'm definitely a tweaker, and as far as paranormal stuff goes... I won't say I believe, but I've seen enough to feel uncomfortable dismissing it outright. I liked a line I heard in a movie once - "I believe in the possibility".
However, I do not believe paranormal effects being the causes behind my tweaks Everything I've tried has been firmly grounded in science - not reasons for why it must work, but reasons for why it could.

 

[Ryan Wright]

quote: Anytime someone may have noticed a benefit from trying something unconventional, he is automatically lambasted for not performing DBT's, or having gone to the trouble of producing a white paper on the issue, or automatically dismissed as suffering from a "placebo response". [/quote]
Those who make outrageous claims should have some proof to back them up. If I told you I had a cure for cancer but had absolutely no proof, nor could I get it, would you believe me? There are a number of reasons I don't buy this clock deal - the lack of proof is one, but the misleading statements are another. Take, for instance:
quote: Even though the clock doesn't understand it can't recharge the battery its trying anyway. [/quote]
RicP: I've never run across a clock that charged it's internal battery. They have no need to: They're only used on a very rare basis. I called my local Radio Shack after reading this and they verified my hypothesis that they do not carry any clocks that come with rechargable batteries or that attempt to charge their internal backup battery.
Now, the issue is whether the person who answered the phone at Radio Shack had any idea what they were talking about. We can settle this one easily enough by answering these questions:
1. Did your clock come with a battery at all?
NO: Proceed to question 2.
YES: Proceed to question 3.
2. Does the instruction manual warn you to use only rechargable batteries?
NO: Proceed to conclusion 1.
YES: Proceed to conclusion 2.
3. Is that battery rechargable?
NO: Proceed to conclusion 1.
YES: Proceed to conclusion 2.
Conclusion 1: The clock either does not warn you to use only rechargable batteries or came with a standard battery. We can safely conclude that this clock does not recharge it's internal battery. If it did, it would have either come with a rechargable battery or there would be big bold warnings on the instruction manual to use only rechargable batteries. We know that attempting to recharge a standard battery can cause leaking, fire, or explosion of the battery, and no manufacturer would let a battery-charging product get out the door without major warnings about the use of rechargable vs. standard batteries. Since the clock does not charge it's internal battery, we can conclude that the whole idea of the battery charging circuit conditioning your AC power is hogwash, and thus there must be some other explanation for this supposed working tweak. Placebo? Another piece of circuitry in the clock? The clock believers should do some more research and get back to us.
Conclusion 2: This is obviously a clock that recharges it's internal batteries. It is nothing like any clock I have ever seen before. In addition, the person who answered the phone at my local Radio Shack had no idea what they were talking about (It wouldn't be the first time). It's possible that the charging circuit is making a difference in the AC power. While I'd need more proof (such as a scope analysis of the AC line) to make a final conclusion, at least we're one step ahead, not five steps behind like we would have been in conclusion 1.
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-Ryan (http://www.ryanwright.com )

 

[Mike Knapp]

quote: If I told you I had a cure for cancer but had absolutely no proof, nor could I get it, would you believe me?[/quote]
No, neither would I challenge you to prove it. I would dismiss you as a crackpot and ignore you....would you guys please show us the same courtesy?
Mike

 

[Mark Austin]

quote: Those who make outrageous claims should have some proof to back them up. If I told you I had a cure for cancer but had absolutely no proof, nor could I get it, would you believe me?[/quote]
There is nothing "outrageous" being claimed.
outrageous adj.,: extremely offensive, insulting, or shameful: shocking
shocking adj.,: extremely offensive
Just because you may require more "proof" does not by any means mandate that they should provide the proof. These are opinions, and suggestions. Nobody selling you anything. You can try it, or you can pass. The "proof" is in the pudding, so to speak.
To equate possible picture and sound enhancements to a cure for cancer is ridiculous. Yes, if you claimed to have a cure for cancer some proof would be necessary, because the results could lead to death. However, suggesting that someone buy a clock to perhaps improve the picture or sound in their HT doesn't carry those same consequences. To even relate the two, or suggest the relation as reasoning behind your skepticism is disingenuous. The way you put it, you're justified because you are trying to save the world from some huge injustice.