Anyone familiar with Toshiba 46H83??

Discussion in 'Displays' started by JayKellen, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. JayKellen

    JayKellen Stunt Coordinator

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    I just bought a 46 inch Toshiba High Definition Projection TV, and am very excited, however, when trying out some DVD's, I noticed some pretty bad pixelation on dark colors especially, but even on bright ones, such as in the water on Finding Nemo. At night time scenes, you can see in the colors that the picture is not 100% as sharp and clear as I would have hoped for. Is this because of a setting I do not have correct, or is it mainly due to the fact that I do not have a progressive scan DVD player, or is it due to my TV being a projection TV and they tend to have pixelated colors at times. I really would love some advice on this, for I feel right now that I wasted my money. I think that maybe these colors were present before in this way, but my TV was a 32 inch, and now that it is a larger TV, it is more evident since it is bigger. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

    P.S. Toshiba TV's have picture size settings, such as natural, wide 1, wide 2, wide 3 and full. I was told to put it on full for anamorphic enhanced movies, but doesnt this stretch the picture to make faces more oval rather than round?? I watched it on wide 1 and they are more round, however, the entire picture is not present. On regular cable programs, full allows me to see sportscenter scores that scroll at the bottom, however, none of the other settings allow this, so what size is ideal for cable programs and what size is ideal for dvd's??...Thanks again.
     
  2. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    Moved to displays
     
  3. DuWayne

    DuWayne Stunt Coordinator

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    "pixelation" or Macroblocking normally results from poor/slow decoding. Certain frames from within the picture are being dropped (either P or B-Frames...If I-Frame is being dropped you would get blackouts) and/or the decoding is slower than the feed.

    I take it that you are using componet cables and you display has a native resolution of 1080i. Being that your DVD Player only sends out a 480i signal (non-Progressive), if you are indeed having an decoder issue, it will lay with the Display.

    The easy way to tell this will be to do this:

    Put on a DVD with a lot of fast move action scenes (/w rain or water would be great), poor/slow decoders will be exsposed themselves quickly.

    You can start here
     
  4. David Parrish

    David Parrish Stunt Coordinator

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    My take is that you need a new DVD player and that your TV is just fine.

    Before returning the Toshiba go buy a decent DVD player with 480P capability. If your TV has a DVI input, find a player with a DVI output.

    Also, take out one of your DVDs that has THX optimization and run the video portion. Part of it checks out your screen sizing to ensure you're getting a perfect image. You can cycle throught your screen modes to see which works best for you.

    Also, make sure your DVD player is set to Progressive play and 16:9 aspect.

    Try lowering your picture/contrast setting on the TV. High contrast may also cause some inherent artifacts to be more noticeable.

    good luck!
     
  5. JayKellen

    JayKellen Stunt Coordinator

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    Every time I think I have my home theater figured out, something else comes up to get me confused. I used to have a 32 inch Toshiba TV hooked up to my surround sound system. It was great, but I wanted a bigger TV with a sharper picture, so I just bought a Toshiba 46 inch High Definition Widescreen Tv. The problem now is that I am coming across 1080i and 480i or 480p or whatever the heck it is, and I do not have a clue what it means. The manual doesnt describe it either. I have noticed greatly that there are some rough pixelation and grain evident in dark colors during certain parts of certain movies. Has this always been there, but I didnt notice cause my TV was smaller before? What does this 1080i and 580p and 480p stuff mean? I am very disappointed in this picture quality, and do not know if it is my dvd player, a lack of progressive scan feature or what, but sometimes the movie looks great, like a dvd should, but other times, it looks horrible for a few seconds. What gives??

    My Tv has two options for this, the 1080i and the 580p, and the manual says if there is flicker, switch to 580p. I guess it is flickering as well as pixelation, but it is at times during a show pretty bad grain and the colors are hardly up to the clarity and crispness of a new tv and a DVD quality video. Please, someone help me out, I just got this new TV and the picture quality is subpar.

    Also, since it is a high definition TV, do channels automatically come in high definition now, or do i have to subscribe to something?? I have a digital cable box, but are there certain settings to enable the high definition broadcasts through my digital cable?? Thanks greatly for advice.
     
  6. FeisalK

    FeisalK Screenwriter

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    Jay check the primer here (scroll down to Source Material & Resolution)

    The number is the number of lines displayed, 1080 or 580 lines, i and p are for interlaced and progressive.

    In a TV the conventional process creates pictures by drawing horizontal lines twice per frame (in your case 1080): once for the even-numbered lines and once for the odd-numbered lines, interlacing about 30 times per second. Progressive-scan means scanning from top to bottom in one fluid pass, making it harder to discern a picture's individual scan lines, which increases resolution while minimizing distortion and flickering.
     
  7. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    That depends on your cable service. Some include HD broadcasts with their basic package; some don't. In either case, you will need a cable box or other device that can decode the HD signal and send it to your TV. That will require a component connection (or other hi-def capable connection, such as DVI). You cannot receive hi-def programming through a simple coax cable, a composite connection or S-video.

    M.
     
  8. JayKellen

    JayKellen Stunt Coordinator

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    So since I do not currently have a Progressive Scan Dvd player, should I set my Tv to 1080i or 580p?? I apologize for not finding this in the primer, I always check it first before I ask questions, I guess I just skipped past it this time. Thanks again.
     
  9. Mark Olton

    Mark Olton Auditioning

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    dvd's are 480i, so I don't think you'd be able to use 1080i or 580p. Since you don't have a progressive scan dvd player, what you're looking for on your TV is 3-2 pulldown (I think Tosh calls it Cinema Mode or something). You may not even need a progressive player, depending on how good a job the tv does. Oh, and make sure your player is connected via component, and not s-video or composite.
     
  10. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    Yes he can. These are settings for how the TV upconverts the signals it receives.

    Jay, you should try both, but my guess is the 580p will be better for most sources.

    M.
     
  11. Mark Olton

    Mark Olton Auditioning

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    Yah, I was thinking 480p. My tv wouldn't let me upconvert that if I wanted to. Like Michael said, 580p will probably be better, and definitely look for your tv's 3-2 pulldown function.
     
  12. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    Are you sure it is 580p? The number 540p is often seen in conjunction with 1080i for what appears on the screen, all I suggest is choose whichever one looks better.

    I don't know what the colloquial difference is between 540p and 1080i, the technical difference is that for 1080i the scan lines alternate 540 line interlaced fields occupy 1080 unique positions vertically on the screen while for 540p the lines of alternate fields coincide, occupying 540 unique positions on the screen (undesirable for HDTV). Some TV sets may use the term 540p for a blending procedure that is recommended for 480p and 480i sources like DVD and VHS but not for HDTV shows.

    Usually the TV will autoselect between 480i, 480p and 1080i for what goes in the back, once in awhile there are separate component video jacks in back for these kinds of input. Usually what appears on the screen is always 1080i or 540p regardless of the input, and upconverting of 480p is always done with no choice given to you.

    The TV uses its 3-2 pulldown preservation and optimizing circuits only for incoming 480i. For 480p from the DVD player, the player has to optimize for 3-2 pulldown otherwise such optimizing is left undone.

    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  13. JayKellen

    JayKellen Stunt Coordinator

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    I apologize for all of my posts concerning the same thing, but I am just not understanding yet what to do...If anyone is familiar with Toshiba, preferably the H83 Series, 46 Inch High Definition Projection TV's, I would greatly appreciate your advice.

    Long story short, I have an RCA Home Theater in a Box 650 Watt surround system(which I know is not the best, but I have loved the sound, so it is great to me), and the 46 Inch Toshiba TV I mentioned above....I watched a DVD, and I noticed in dark colors some pretty bad pixelation...the colors were NOT solid at all for a DVD, nor for a tape for that matter....anyway, someone told me to mess with the 1080i or 540p options (maybe its 580p) and to also check the 3-2 pulldown feature to make these colors a lot better and a lot less pixelated....I didn't really notice a difference when I set it originally at 1080i then to 580p, but do I have to restart the movie or shut off the dvd for a bit to have the new setting take affect? I checked my manual and there is not a 3-2 pullout feature that I can see, but maybe I am missing something....Do I need Progressive Scan DVD player to solve this problem, or what can I do??

    I feel that adding this newer, larger TV actually enlarged the problems of the picture compared to my older, smaller 32 inch Toshiba TV...Has the picture always been this bad but I could not see it at the smaller size?? I am baffled, and would really love for these colors to be solid and crisp like I know a DVD should be. Thank you very much for any advice.
     
  14. Cameron Yee

    Cameron Yee Executive Producer
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    I don't think the moderators want you to create multiple threads on the same topic, so keep that in mind the next time.

    A couple questions you need to answer to shed some light on what might be happening:

    What movie are you watching? Not all DVDs are created equally. Your best bet would be to go with a Pixar film, like Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo or Toy Story 2. Keep in mind it will take you some time to adjust to the increase in size of your display. The size increase, while still a benefit, will also accentuate any flaws in the picture.

    Have you calibrated your display with a disc like Video Essentials or Avia? If your brightness and contrast are jacked up this will also reveal things you're not supposed to see (like pixelation in the shadows). This might also help with the colors.

    There is also a break-in period for rear projection crt sets (if this is what you have). Manually adjust your convergence daily during the first 200 hours of use.

    All that being said, I didn't really LOVE the DVD picture on my set until I bought a Bravo D1, which upconverts the 480i signal to 1080i. It is not true HD, but close, and I will never go back.

    I'm not familiar with your particular set, but I have last year's Toshiba 42hdx82. I do not have an option to switch b/w 1080i or 540p. It just takes whatever I send it and does its thing (what exactly I cannot say). If you have a non-progressive DVD player hooked up, the set will be putting the signal through its line doubler in order to display. This might be just as good, better, or worse than having a progressive scan player, It depends on the model. You could try getting a progressive player and switching b/w its interlaced and progressive mode to see if the TV is better with its line doubler or the players. Assuming the television is line doubling just fine, my first points of attack would be viewing a flawless DVD (Pixar) and calibrating the brightness, contrast, color, etc. with Video Essentials or something similar.
     
  15. Cary_H

    Cary_H Second Unit

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    We need more info.
    How have you got it connected? With what? Have you checked the menus of both your set and your player?
    To me, what you're experiencing isn't your set. Pixelation suggests an issue with the input signal.

    How long have you owned your 42? I am nearing the 2 year mark with my 50H81. I swear the PQ still continues to improve with every day of use. It took a lot of hours 'til I became anywhere close to content with it's black and white level performance. 500+ hours minimum is my guesstimate from my own experience..
    Solve your current issues then put some mileage on your set. The PQ will improve in leaps and bounds.
     
  16. JayKellen

    JayKellen Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry about the lack of info, I guess I am just frustrated....anyway, I have an S-Video cable from my TV to my DVD, I have a monster cable connection kit, what this included I am not sure, I just heard it was the best...It was around 100 bucks, so I am assuming it included component video...it has the really thick white covering over the wires, its good stuff....hope this can help with the advice...thanks again
     
  17. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    S-video is not component. You are either watching through component or through s-vid. Try hooking it up through the component connection and get a calibration disk to dial in your display.

    Pixelation is usually a problem with the DVD player or the DVD. Does it happen all the time or just on certain DVD's? Are they big blocky pixels or real small? Check the DVD for scratches of dirt, this may be the reason. If it happens all the time, you may have a bad player that does not handle blacks well.
     
  18. John S

    John S Producer

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    Yes, you should definetly switch to component video over svideo.


    This will improve it I am sure.
     
  19. JayKellen

    JayKellen Stunt Coordinator

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    ok, thanks for the advice, but do i just unplug the s-video then and it will automatically detect the component or do i have to mess around with more settings somewhere??? Right now, the s-video and the components are hooked up at the same time
     
  20. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    The Toshiba should have 2 different sets of "Video In" inputs for the S-vid and component. Usually, s-video is "Video 2 or Video 3" and component is "Video 4 or Video 5". Check the back of the set to see which video in you have them attached to. Note - Toshiba calls their component inputs "ColorStream".
     

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