Anyone else here dislike Disney films besides me? (1 Viewer)

[Ken_McAlinden]

The best Disney animators have an ability to create a character performance that rivals anything else I am seeing in modern animation. If the likes of Glen Keane and Andreas Deja were working on films with the more serious themes of some of the better Anime films, that would be something special.
I think that may be one of the reasons that I don't enjoy the Ghibli "kiddie" stuff (e.g. Kiki & Totoro)as much as their more serious fare (Grave of the Fireflies, Princess Mononoke). The best Disney stuff goes beyond "cute" to expressive.
I think that individual expression is what I respond to in most films that I enjoy. In the best Japanese animation, the whole film tends to represent an individual's view point and/or sensibilities.
Due to their production methods and risk averse production supervisors, individual expression tends to come from specific character performances in Disney and Pixar (Pixar is a lot like Disney, but with an insanely high batting average. ) films. I can respond positively to either if they are well executed.
To tell you the truth, I think that Aardman has a lot of the best qualities of both approaches. WB's The Iron Giant did as well. I personally like "The Iron Giant" better than most Disney stuff I have seen since "Beauty and the Beast", but "Tarzan" came close, IMHO.
Disney makes too many enjoyable films for me to say that I dislike them. I can say with confidence that I dislike crap like "Dinosaur", though.
Regards,

 

[TheLongshot]

First off, my view of Disney. I pick and choose what I like from their collection. For example, of the "new" Disney films, I like "The Little Mermaid" to "The Lion King" and "Tarzan". I do like that they are starting to diverge from the formula that they've been using for these new films. The formula has gotten stale and they need to take more risks. Certianly, tho, they are the best studio technically, and is pretty good at pushing the envelope.

Personally, I do prefer anime. Much more meat on its bones and more challenging subjects, not always aimed at little kids. I do think anyone who likes animation should at least see one of Studio Ghibli's films. They are a step above most anime. (And I wouldn't judge Akira a good example of anime. For most people, it was the first anime they ever saw, but I don't think it is all that.)

That being said, just because it is made in Japan, doesn't instantly make it great. There is good and bad stuff over there as well, it is just a good percentage of the bad stuff never sees this shore (especially nowadays).

And animation is not supposed to be very deep or meaninful.

Why not? It is like saying films aren't supposed to be deep or meaningful, or paining isn't supposed to be deep or meaningful. Just because it isn't commonly used that way doesn't mean it can't. "Grave Of The Fireflys" is one of the most heartwrenching films I've ever seen. You don't think that animation should be used that way?

Jason

 

[Terrell]

Disney's feature length animation was not nor was meant to be deep and meaningful, as in live action. Surely though, animation can be meaningful and deep.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Not only can animation be meaningful, but I think it should. Maybe not all of it, but more of it than there is.

The closest thing to meaningful animation in America is the Pixar stuff because of how well it deals with themes without shoving them in your face, but alas, that's not Disney writing the films, and I still don't like their movies that much.

I like for some movies to just be entertaining without meaning, thats why we have action movies, but Disney stays entertaining only for children. Anime either has a universal appeal or is aimed more at older people.

Neon Genesis Evangelion, an anime TV series, is what I consider the best in anime for many reasons. The production values are in place (most noticable in the more action oriented scenes), it has a LOT of depth, and the characters are the most realistic from any TV show, movie, play, or any other form of art I can think of. The show is quite obviously aimed at older people, but when you put enough thought into it, you can see just how much there is to this series (the 2 movies from it included).

Any animation ever made in America could only dream of amounting to anything like that. Why? Because animation is not looked apon as a valid form of artistic expression in ways other than visuals and that keeps it from getting good.

A lot ofAmerican animation that has been more adult oriented also has ended up sucking. Both because the animation sucks and because the actual content sucks. Dunno why, it just seems to be that way.

 

[rob kilbride]

Michael, my comment regarding historical inaccuracies is in response to a post earlier in the thread by Bill Griffith. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Sure you don't mention names but it seems incredibly clear to me that you think the people posting that don't care for the Japanese animation that they have been exposed to have some sort of anti-Japan sentiment or know nothing about Japanese animation. That's not fair, both Terrell and I have seen some Japanese animation and were not impressed. Is that ok with you? Its unfair to say or insinuate that anyone is biased when you have no way of knowing whether they are or not. How could you possibly know what someones mind set was when they first experienced something? I didn't start watching Battle of the Planets and Speed Racer prejudiced against it because it was from Japan. I didn't even know it was Japanese until years later. And every example of Japanese animation I've seen has had a very similar style. So I also think its unfair to insinuate anyone who isn't into anime must not know anything about it. I don't feel my opinion is uninformed. I just happen to like high budget/high production value animation. So unless all anime cover artwork I have ever seen is of significantly lower quality than the animation in the movie, I'm guessing I will not be impressed with the production value of most if not all anime. There are tons of entertainment options around so forgive us if we don't wait for at least 10 unimpressive examples of anime before we lose interest. I have better things to do than searching for examples within entertainment genres that I will like when I've already been unimpressed several times by previous examples. However, when I see a movie trailer or a clip on TV of beautiful animation and find out it is from a Japanese studio, I will be first in line to watch it.

 

[Terrell]

I like for some movies to just be entertaining without meaning, thats why we have action movies, but Disney stays entertaining only for children.

Morgan, all I can say is there must be a lot of very old children then, because there are millions of adults that enjoy Disney animation. For you to make a seeping statement that generalizes an entire group is not fair, and it's certainly is not right. I'm an adult, and Disney animation stays entertaining for me. Guess that makes me and some of the other people on this board children.:rolleyes
BTW, Pixar films aren't much different, in that they too can be included in your argument that they are only entertaining for children.

 

[Michael Dehaven]

Its a small world after all

Its a small world after all

weeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Terrell wrote:

"(...) I'm an adult, and Disney animation stays entertaining for me. Guess that makes me and some of the other people on this board children."

...which in some ways can be seen as a very good thing...

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Terrell wrote:

"Even at 30 I still watch Looney Tunes. They kill me with laughter."

That is great, and why not?!

This notion that animation is only for kids is very wrong, in my opinion. The development has moved in that direction during much of the television era, but does anyone really think that the Looney Tunes of the 1940s were aimed at kids?

 

[TheLongshot]

However, when I see a movie trailer or a clip on TV of beautiful animation and find out it is from a Japanese studio, I will be first in line to watch it.

Probably won't happen because because of preconceived notions like yours. Anime isn't one type of thing, but many different types of stories. It is like saying that you won't watch American animation because you don't like Disney. There is more to American animation than just Disney. Think of Studio Ghibli as the Disney of Japan (It is a wrong analogy, but close enough for our purposes). Their stuff is a step above most.

Jason

 

[Morgan Jolley]

If you watch some of the more modern anime (Evangelion was made in 1996) and you look into it a lot, then you would probably enjoy anime more than you do.

I never said only children watched Disney movies, but that they were aimed at children, and they are. If they were aimed at adults, they would not do it the same way, and if kids didn't want to see the movies, they would do something else.

Like someone mentioned, comparing crappy anime from the 60s, 70s, or even 80s (Dragonball Z was made in the 80s) is not fair. Why don't you compare old Disney films to current anime instead of old anime to current Disney? Those old Disney films didn't have shadows, were totally unoriginal in every way, the animation was not very fluent in some movies, and they were most definitely aimed at children.

And if you don't want to put the effort into seeing a good anime to make a fair comparison, why don't I just watch some crappy Disney animation and assume all American animation is like that? If you want to see some examples of pristine anime (and I don't mean the stuff the ultra anime fans like, I mean the top quality, in every way, stuff) you should ask someone.

Just as a side note, Akira is a very popular anime, but I would not reccomend it to someone who doesn't already like anime because they would be too weirded out and would not be able to follow. Its a perfect example of what anime usually is, but that doesn't mean everyone will like it.

 

[Terrell]

but Disney stays entertaining only for children.

Morgan, that was the only statement you made that I had a problem with. A lot of adults have enjoyed many of Disney's animated films, including the numerous classics. It was your statement that only kids can enjoy Disney films is what bothered me.

As for animation, I never said that Disney was all there was to animation. All I've ever argued is that when it comes to feature length animation, not necessarily including CGI, that Disney is clearly the best. I have seen anime. It's not like I'm making that statement completely blind. I've seen Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Akira, and many other anime shows on TV. I didn't care for any of them. That's not a slight against the Japanese.

 

[Grant B]

I love Dismal Cartoons as much as I enjoy beating my foot with a Ballpeen Hammer

Their Nazi-esque camps are a blast too!

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I'm sorry about the "only entertaining for kids" comment. I understand that a lot of adults like Disney movies, and I'm not saying that's wrong. I meant to say that the movies are made mostly with the idea of being entertaining for children, but adults also happen to like the movies.

I've seen Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Akira, and many other anime shows on TV

And of course, anime on American TV is 99% crap. Either its bad to begin with, is edited so all the good stuff isn't there anymore, or is horribly dubbed and sucks because of that. I would reccomend that you watch anime that is good, not popular.

I have seen many Disney films (my dad's a huge Disney nut) and I have seen some of the best that anime has to offer (though not much of it) and I can honestly say that while Disney's best stuff has better animation and image quality than pretty much everything that anime has to offer, I cannot enjoy stupid characters and unoriginal storylines with no depth or realism anymore. I wouldn't mind it so much if they would at least be more creative. In anime, they have had characters that are put there for mainly comic relief, but they still have realism, depth, and contribute to the storyline in an important way, other than just comic relief.

I do enjoy American animation, such as Looney Tunes and a lot of the more humorous stuff (like Cartoon Network's Adult Swim cartoons) but Disney's animated stuff does nothing more than look good. I long for the day when Disney can create a movie where the characters exhibit at least half of the depth and realism of the characters from even Speed Racer (maybe that is setting my standards too high).

 

[Michael Dehaven]

The saddest thing is that D$sney has the Studio Ghibli titles in its death grip. They have released them in Japan, Princess Mononoke is a three disc set! Kiki's Delivery is a two disc set! They are anamorphic and loaded. My daughter and I are genuflecting nightly for these. Oh please Mr. Mouse can't we have our Miyazaki, please!

 

[Terrell]

I cannot enjoy stupid characters and unoriginal storylines with no depth or realism anymore.

Many of us would disagree with that, but to each his own. I don't fault you for liking different things. But Pinocchio, Snow White, Bambi, Cinderella, The Jungle Book, Beauty & the Beast, Aladdin, and The Lion King aren't what I'd call stupid characters with no depth or realism. But again, to each his own.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I'm so damn glad I don't have the discriminating tastes most people on this forum have. I like just about everything.
Going back to the original post, sorry Jay, but you can count me out. I like most Disney films during the pre-Pocahontas era (eg. Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, etc.). I'm pretty sure you'll eventually run into more Disney nay-sayers. They're just hiding from all the snipers atop each roof getting ready to take out Disney-haters As for the Disney shorts, I can't see how anybody can not laugh at the slapstick of the Goofy shorts where he tries exercise or when Donald tries to impress Daisy with a more suave look-alike.
As for anime, I like it, and I like it a lot. I guess its appeal to me is the mature storylines and style of drawing. I haven't been exposed to it much, but I would like to check out more horror or Sci-Fi titles.
Unlike most anime-lovers, I like Dragon Ball Z. Living in Thailand for a year and a half, I got to watch it uncut and uncensored as the episodes were being produced out of Japan. I tend to grin and chuckle more at the overly-long drawn out, face-offs than get frustrated and mad. Oh well, that's just me.

 

[rob kilbride]

Morgan , what the heck are you talking about? The hand-drawn animation of the first few Disney films would totally blow away anything in anime, and I know this because it is superior to anything being done now by Disney! I'm not talking about computer effects, I'm talking about handrawn art. Have you watched Snow White, Bambi,Fantasia, or Pinocchio? The detail in these films is incredible! And these older titles were not aimed exclusively at children and it is reflected in their much darker themes and scenes than anything Disney would attempt today. And trust me there are PLENTY of shadows and realism in the animation and the films were EXTREMELY original and groundbreaking, not "totally unoriginal in every way." How could you say Snow White was unoriginal? It was the first animated film ever! You appear to be at least as unknowledgeable of and prejudiced against Disney as you think I am of Japanese animation. And Jason, I've always been able to get an idea of the production value of an animated film from the cover. I have yet to see a brilliant cover and have it turn out to be crap, or vice versa. I also consider the screenshots on the back cover. If the still frames look subpar, how the heck is it gonna look great when animated? And back to Morgan, as for the subject of Disney being for kids only, I'm not aware of my parents or very many other of my adult friends being interested in any other full length animated movies besides Disney's. And their much higher box office numbers compared to that of work from other studio's also indicate this. And guys, how many shows, clips of movies etc. do I have to think are subpar before I have your permission not to be a big fan of anime? Is it ok if I consider the things I do know about it? If you want to impress me or change my opinion, then please post some links to some screenshots that will. And as to blameing Speed Racer etc on a low TV budget, then how much of a budget are these other films getting? Is it around $100 milllion like Disney's movies? I doubt it. And I'm not being unfair at all because if I see one counterexample to what I've been saying I will certainly be willing to watch the movie. And you guys talk as if this is the same thing as being racist, as if these studios have a RIGHT to be considered equally. People have a right to equal consideration and respect, companies must earn it. If you have a bad experience at Pizza Hut, and then again, and again, do you keep going back because you don't want to be prejudiced against the other employee's who weren't involved. If Japanese anime wants respect and success in the US market they should actively court the US market with impressive film trailers etc. I was skeptical about Prince of Egypt until I saw its spectacular animation on its trailer or TV spot (I don't remember exactly which). Dreamworks actively sought people like me and when they delivered they had a new legion of fans. So I challenge all of you anime fans prove me wrong by posting links to the best screenshots you can find. Or even better a video clip if possible. And even if they are proven worthy films, I doubt the quality of the animation can touch what Disney does with its high budgets.

And even those of you who don't like Disney cannot deny that they have always been the most technically innovative studio. Steamboat Willy was the first sound cartoon. Flowers and Trees was the first color cartoon. The Old Mill inroduced the multiplanar camera creating the illusion of depth. Snow White was the first full-length animated film. I believe the Great Mouse Detective was the first animated film to use computer animation, if not it was probably The Black Cauldron. Toy Story was the first completely computer animated full length film. And Dinosaur was the first animated film in which computer animated characters were blended into real backgrounds. Sure I wish they didn't recycle there plots as much as they do but their animation is absolutely top notch and their high budget films are always entertaining to me.

 

[Jason Handy]

I cannot enjoy stupid characters and unoriginal storylines with no depth or realism anymore.

These movies only have no depth to a person not capable of interpreting the deeper metaphors presented by the characters and their relationships.

In my opinion, Disney movies (especially older movies like Snow White) represent a perfect knife-edge balance between appealing to kids with simple moral-driven storylines and appealing to adults with thought-provoking character relationships. Don't forget that back in the day when these movies were first being produced, there were not 50 movies out at one time to provide each niche market with something to go see. Most of the movie houses had one theater and showed one movie. Sooooo...movies had to cater to a wider audience, and an audience that would want to see the movie multiple times. These days, something like 60% - 90% of most movies revenue is made during opening weekend. A good preview will suck them in, and there is no need to make a good movie, because moviemakers today are not aiming for an audience that will want to see it twice in the theaters. And don't bother with naming examples that contradict this point, we know this to be true.

Morgan, you are a product of this society that looks at movies as requiring big explosions and torrid sexual tension to draw an audience. It is no surprise to me that you think Disney movies are boring.

Jason

 

[Trace Downing]

I cannot enjoy stupid characters and unoriginal storylines with no depth or realism anymore.

This sounds like an obvious biased and dismissive statement, if I ever heard one.

I've seen about a dozen Anime movies in the past, and with the exception of Kikki's Delivery Service, I felt nothing, or had much interest in any of the characters. Since the anime snobs here insist that there are better examples than what was given, let me offer what I've seen...

Ghost in the Shell

Roujin Z

Vampire Hunter D

Demon City: Shingoku

Akira

Princess Mononoke

MD Geist

Tenchi in Love

Kikki's Delivery Service

My Neighbor Totorro

...Only a few I can remember

Mind you, many of the ideas presented in these anime films are intruiging, but in the end, I find most anime to be cold, flat, and pedantic, and way too interested in it's plot device ideas than it's characters.

Call it Disney classic manipulation, but I get involved with many (not all) Disney characters throughout their films. I felt for Simba, Todd and Copper, Tarzan, Pokahontas, Snow White, Pinochio, Lady, Baghera, Pongo, and even Cruella DeVille and Quasimodo.

And...anyone who doesn't feel at least something for Bambi when a spoiler happens (as if nobody knows who get's killed) has no pulse.