Anyone bi-wire???

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by DanaA, Jan 23, 2002.

  1. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    Just got my new Klipsch Reference speakers (finally!!!) for my bedroom set-up. They can be bi-wired and the owner's manual says this improves detail, sound stage, etc. Before I go through the effort, can anyone let me know if they have found this process to demonstrate significant improvement in their speakers sound? If I understand correctly, instead of using two speaker wires per speaker, you would use four. Two each would attach to the positive and negative terminals on the receiver and, in turn, you would attach two positive and two negative at the different posts on the speakers. I guess I'd have to get rid of my 12 gauge wire and move to 16 or something like that.
     
  2. Sebastien David

    Sebastien David Second Unit

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    if you try it, just don't forget to remove the plate that shorts out the two pairs of binding posts on the speakers.

    apparently, biwiring helps a little, but not nearly as much as biamping though, FWIW. we biwired some speakers at work, but I didn't get to do an A/B, so I couldn't tell you whether the difference was that noticeable. anyways, in my opinion, you've spent some good money on those Klipsch speakers, why not spend the (relatively) small extra amount to biwire them?
     
  3. PeteMc

    PeteMc Auditioning

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    Dana,

    True bi-wiring requires that the signal going to the woofer is separated from the signal going to the tweeters. The argument is that the low frequency bass signals can impact the transfer of the high frequency treble signals through the wire and vice versa. By the way, bi-wiring is not a new trick, but has been around for many years (now I'm sounding very old, but I have been playing with this stuff for 30 years now). I'm not sure if the Klipsch have been truly wired for bi-wiring, or if they simply provide multiple terminals to connect to, but if they have, you should try it to see if it makes a difference.

    In my opinion, bi-wiring makes an extremely subtle difference in sound that can only be heard on the highest quality systems under reference conditions. I'm sure you will have many others who will say that bi-wiring makes a significant difference, but the only way you will understand if bi-wiring makes sense for you is to try it.

    Hope this helps.

    Pete
     
  4. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    I concur with what Pete said. As a mattter of fact Klipsch R&D has publicly admited that the only reason Klipsch speakers are bi-wireable is preasure from the Klipsch dealers and the Klipsch marketing department. They see no acutual sonic benefit to it. It does allow them to sell more speakers though, which is what they are in business for. Hell, I'd do the same thing if I were them. Gotta give the customers what they want.[​IMG]
    Nick
     
  5. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    On a speaker meant to be Bi-Amped they add Bi-Wiring as an

    added side benefit. My AR9's are meant to be Bi-Amped (AR

    even goes as far as recomending a 7 Watt Tube Amp for the mid

    and high section)

    On Bi-Amp capeable towers or Monitors the Crossover sections

    are completely seperated meaning there is absolutely no cross

    talk between the Sub section and the Mid/High section. I have

    Bi-Wired my AR9's I run 4 conductors of 12Awg SoundKing OFC

    that terminate on the amp side into a pair of Banana's and

    on the other end terminate into 2 pairs of Banana's.

    For me, the jury is still out on Bi-Wiring, I want to say

    that I can barely hear slightly better seperation of the

    driver sections. I am not running a great main unit (Onkyo

    TX-DS787) don't get me wrong here.. It's great but it's not

    what I want for critical 2 channel listening. I have a feeling

    that if I went Pre Amp/ Monoblock I would see a greater increase

    in seperation with the Bi-Wiring.

    My ultimae goal is to purchase a Tube PreAmp and 4 Monoblock

    Solid State amps and run Source-Preamp-Monoblocks and truly

    Bi-Amp the AR9's and then I am sure I will see ( or in this

    case, HEAR) a phenominal diffrence. My AR9's sound great but

    there is something holding them back and that is good clean

    power and a great Tube Preamp!

    If the Klipsch are not meant to be Bi-Amped then IMHO there

    is little or no benefit to Bi-Wiring what-so-ever
     
  6. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    Thanks for the explanations. I went over to the Klipsch site last night and one poster said he was in the process of reversing his bi-wiring. I left a message asking him why. For now, I guess I'll put it on the back burner. First, I have to break the speakers in and thereafter I have to deal with some positioning problems with the speakers in that they are in my bedroom and I have other things like a computer center in there with them. Again, thanks.
     
  7. Andy Anderson

    Andy Anderson Second Unit

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    I did a little A/B with my 603 S2's (MArantz SR7000 receiver), borrowing a friend's biwire cable. I honestly couldn't tell a difference. I didn't do a blind test (no one else was helping me) but I really tried to listen for subtle differences. I couldn't hear any. B&W's manual says the same things that yours do. When I was purchasing the speakers, the dealer was telling me the same story--he did mention that there was one speaker manufacturer whose speakers are bi-wirable, but they don't actually recommend it--might have been Sonus Faber--I can't recall. Anyway--hope this helps.
     
  8. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    Andy, it does - thanks. This is just one of many, many things I've learned from the very knowledgeable people here at Home Theater Forum - yourself included.
     
  9. Andy Anderson

    Andy Anderson Second Unit

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    No problem Dana. I just want to reiterate, though, that I definitely don't think bi-wiring is a bad thing, simply that I personally was not able to discern a difference (good or bad) in tonal quality, soundstage, etc.--so I decided not to go that route. Now, if you've got lots of wattage through separates, bigger speaks, etc., maybe you will. I dunno. [​IMG]
     
  10. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

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    First, the speakers must use a true, dual element crossover for biwiring to be effective (or a single crossover on the tweeter with a seperate mechanical crossover on the woofer).

    Second, it's soley dependant on the specific amplifier/speaker combination whether the sound will be better, worse or the same. There's many variables in the equation. Amp damping factor, gauss of the woofer magnet, impedance curve of the speaker, etc.
     
  11. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

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    First, the speakers must use a true, dual element crossover for biwiring to be effective.

    Second, it's soley dependant on the specific amplifier/speaker combination whether the sound will be better, worse or the same. There's many variables in the equation. Amp damping factor, gauss of the woofer magnet, impedance curve of the speaker, etc.
     
  12. Bob Marker

    Bob Marker Stunt Coordinator

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    For whatever its worth, I've tried bi-wiring in the past (on Vandersteen speakers) and could detect no difference in sound. Bob
     
  13. Thomas_Berg

    Thomas_Berg Screenwriter

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    question: so to bi-wire (assuming the speakers will accept it), you'd have to run four wires for each speaker from the receiver? do you do this by using spades for one wire and bananas for the other? what would happen if one touched the other? a nice pic would be cool if someone has one.
     
  14. RicP

    RicP Screenwriter

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  15. Len Cheong

    Len Cheong Second Unit

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    Ric, what kind of cables are those. They are nice looking. Are those ring type spades?
     
  16. Sebastien David

    Sebastien David Second Unit

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    I think a picture of hox it looks coming out of the receiver/amp would be interesting too if you can manage, for the less-experienced among us.
     
  17. EarlR

    EarlR Stunt Coordinator

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    You don’t actually have to run 4 speaker wires to bi-wire. Most of the better manufacturers offer bi-wire termination on their speaker cables. The cable has one pair of connectors on one end and is set up with double pairs on the other end, usually marked high and low. Bi-wiring, as stated previously, usually offers a subtle difference for the better depending on the quality of the speakers and the front end used. I have been bi-wiring my speakers for years, as I like the improvements.

    Earl
     

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