Anybody own B&W (1 Viewer)

[James_N_H]

Jonathan K,
Speakers are generally a matter of taste, I use the B&W 600 S3 range, when I came to buy them I tested everything I could in that price range and nothing at all could touch them, o.k some speakers may have had a slightly better midrange or treble, but those speakers fell away in other areas and the B&W's where by far the best all rounders. As for build quality nothing came near them either.
You say for B&W you have to pay alot to get alot, if you think about it thats true of all speakers, you arent going to get the best speakers in the world for you for £100. The nautilus range is quite widely regarded as the best range of speakers in the world, im not saying it is for everybody as people have different tastes but B&W are by no means a bad company.

 

[Jonathan K]

You don't have to pay a lot to get a lot for all the time. I would SOOOOOO take the 801's over *so many other speakers out there*. I am aware that B&W is world class, but I am saying that, at many price points, they can --and are-- beaten. I speak specifically of the 600 series.
Perhaps you should check out http://www.audioenvy.com/ in order to audition some of the original Diva by Swan speakers in your area. There should be many owners who can help you! *begin half joke* Yes, the Swans are a *little* bit known as being B&W clones for cheaper, but they're cloning the 800 line, so you get speakers that are cheaper than the 800's, looks like the 800's, sound better than the 600's, as good as maybe the 805's, but not as good as the rest of the 800's *end half joke*. That was before the Rockets came out... And, btw, the people who designed the Swan speakers, the people in Hi Vi Research in China, seem slightly more prone to not being 100% original than the people who designed the Rockets in the States. That's just what me, and others have seen, and *personally*, I am *VERY* glad that this new lineup is solving all of these originality problems (and it was more than just one problem, lemme tell you that!)
Regardless, Diva by Swan speakers are great speakers, a great value at a great price, as are Rocket speakers, and the distributor, av123.com is one of the best and most honest and nicest in the business! IMO, if very nice people are selling a quality product at a *VERY* nice price, you should at least give them a look..
BTW, in order to find out that, hey, you don't ALWAYS have to pay big bucks for high end sound, you MIGHT wanna read these webpages...
http://www.av123.com/whybuy.html
http://www.av123.com/whybuy_how.html
http://www.av123.com/whybuy_numbers.html
http://www.av123.com/whybuy_numbers-s.html
(there are a few typos on those last two... don't worry about it...)
It's just an explanation of the benefits of the Internet-Direct marketing scheme. Companies like nOrh, Axiom, SVS, Onix, Outlaw, and others have begun to see the benefits of this way of doing business... as those benefits are *VERY* tangible...

 

[James_N_H]

Like I said its a matter of taste, you specifically speak of the 600 series being beaten, if you find that then its your opinion but like I said when I came to buy my speakers nothing bettered them out of everything I tested them against, but of course thats my opinion, and probably quite a few other peoples, as im sure the sales figures for these speakers speak for themselves.

 

[Jonathan K]

Yup! Just like the Bose sales figures speak for themselves, right? After all, they sell the most... Sales figures = squat... Direct reviews from people who know their stuff, and compare both, are meaningful, as are well-done measurements. You can find acess to both (at least the 600's vs. the Diva line) by asking at avsforum.com.

For chrissakes, doesn't the 600 series NOT even use MDF?

 

[Jonathan K]

For example, here are some quotes from that thread...
"While I haven't seen or heard the Rockets, I have auditioned the 6.1's and IMHO the B&W 600 series can not even be considered to be in the same class as the Divas so if the beta testers claim that the Rockets are an "upgrade" from the Divas, then I would imagine that the Rockets compare VERY favorably to the 600. In fact, it should be a "NO CONTEST" comparison."
"Kidd - I am not a Diva owner (well, I do own a C3 but not 'main' speakers), and I will say the Divas are better than the B&W 600 line. "
And a more realistic approach,
"Kidd.... this is my take. Before I say anything... yes I am an owner of the 600 series, but I'm trying to give the most objective opinion as possible for your specific scenario. I'm not doubting that the higher line Rockets will better the 600 series. In fact, I'm drooling over the Rockets and wish I had delayed my 600series purchase a couple of months so I could have auditioned these.
Anyways... my opinion is that the RS150's will not be "head and shoulders" better than the 601's.... at least in an HT application. Since I haven't heard the RS150's, I can't say which would sound better, but I'm sure the differences would not be huge for HT. One thing to think about is that the RS150 doesn't sport the Vifa tweeter, which seems to be a major strong point of the rockets... while the 601 has the nautilus tapered tube. The "brighter" nature of B&W's may provide a more dynamic HT experience. The finish of the B&W's match your decor whereas the rockets don't. Taking all that into account, I'd vote for the 601's over the RS150's in an HT application. But with music, that's up in the air and depends on auditioning and selecting on personal perference. I haven't heard the RS150's and I am in no way saying who is better. But it seems to make more sense in your case to go with the B&W's. My guess is that the higher line Rockets will be a better than the 600 series. So with that, maybe you should opt to go without a sub in the meanwhile and climb a little higher up the Rocket ladder. Or even forgo the surrounds and put all your money on the three front rockets for now. Another option is to go with the Rockets now and then upgrade the fronts to the higher end rockets later on. If you have to get a sub now, I'd say stay away from B&W as they don't have the slam for the buck as much as HSU or SVS."
IMO, that sounds right -- i would only *definitely* but the Rockets with the Vifa tweeter above the 600 series...

 

[Pete Jennings]

Jonathan, have you ever *heard* a pair of Rockets? Or are you making a generalization because your "$200 multimedia speakers beat out a pair of 303's"?
If you haven't actually heard them yourself then you are making observations about speakers based solely on the opinions of others, and then trying to influence someone else's potential purchase. It's OK to point out other alternatives, even if you haven't personally heard them. It is not OK to bash an entire product line across the board based on "the battle of the multimedia speakers".
Have you even *heard* a B&W 600 series speaker? You don't mention actually hearing them anywhere in your posts. I find that curious. If you have and didn't like them, that's fine and dandy, not everyone does. Speakers are a highly personal thing afterall.
I haven't heard your multimedia speakers, I am sure they sound great. I *have* heard a pair of properly setup 303's and they were astounding for the $$. The best speakers I have ever heard? No. Among the best sounding speakers for the $$? Yes. Crap? Most certianly not.
Of course, this is only my $.02, and that won't even begin to help buy you a cup of coffee!
Pete

 

[Jonathan K]

The 303's weren't crap, and I was listening to them in a dealer's showroom. I found them quite bright, and while they had lots of detail and good extension, the sound was fatiguing. They had good seperation of the instruments, but little to no soundstage depth that I have heard. I am sure that, if my active $200 multimedia speakers (more like self-powered bookshelf monitors, at clearance price, down from $300...) sounded more pleasing in so many ways (not all, but a *LOT* of things, depth, naturalness, male vocals, stuff like that) than, well, I don't think it should be TOO hard to beat the 303's...

No, I haven't heard the Rockets. Few people have, but those are people that I trust...

Maybe I'm biased, I dunno. If so, than slam me, for I obviously need it, as I can't quite see the fault in my arguments or position, and if there is something wrong with what I am saying, than I should know.. I just don't think that B&W has really been in a position to make speakers that are better than internet-direct speakers at a lesser price point. Yes, B&W has good design, but so do a lot of other companies!

How about this... If I can dig up someone who has heard a lot of Diva, Rocket, and B&W, or maybe some other internet direct that are high end, like nOrh, and get him to post here, would you all listen to that person?

 

[Phil A]

There are valid reasons for and against buying via a dealer network from an established company. With some of the internet direct sites and where the products are made, there is nice opportunity to get things at a great value. Obviously when one goes through a dealer network which gets products typically from a distributor and then the dealer needs to have a store front, pay electric, etc. That being said, a reputable dealer can offer service (e.g. repair, loaners) and an intelligent environment to make a decision as to what product is best. Yes it is at a price premium. Everything that was ever made breaks. I don't care if it is Mercedes or the cheapest auto out there. What separates the better brands (and dealers) out there is how they handle problems and their ability to be there for customers long-term if they keep the products. With some of the products sold via the internet one must keep in mind that it is highly likely at some point there may not be an ability to get service or exact parts, particularly if they get a driver modified slight to their specs or stability in the place where they are made. The opportunity to deal without a dealer chain in the middle is not brand new. Look at www.hifi.com. Dealing with such circumstances does get one more for the dollar, but with more hassles if there is a need for service and in the case of some no service at some point down the road. B&W is a reputable company with an extensive dealer network that offers a full-range of products. Obviously, the higher-up the chain one goes in such a line of products vs. buying the small bookshelves, the bigger the potential savings can be if one goes to an internet dealer.

 

[James_N_H]

Jonathan K,
Are you a salesman for rocket or something, or do you just not understand the fact that people have different tastes and prefer different things. All those quotes you have put on this thread are from individuals who have certain tastes, you could have just picked out every comment in favour of rocket.

What about Bose sales figures? They have their place in the market, they are highly discreet and are used in many bars, restaurants, take aways and pretty much every nightclub I have ever been into.

You have said it yourself, you have not heard the rockets so until you do you are quite obviously biased, just look at the reviews that B&W's get, the only bad ones I can think of recently where of the CM range, which actually wernt bad just below B&W's typical standard. And what about the 600 series using MDF, take apart any speaker common speaker at this price range you will find one form of MDF underneath, at least they use real wood veneers on top of that MDF unlike some.

 

[Jonathan K]

I'm not a salesman. they are a lot less zealous and smarter than me, and would never do this in this forum, lol! I hope i'm not a troll, but i may be falling into that niche. i think i should back out now, before i do, cause i'm too damn close.

 

[rodneyH]

why do people give speaker preferences without actually HEARING them??? I don't know about you, but this is somewhat analagous to someone prefering a car and buying it without driving it, and recommending food witout tasting it, recommending a TV without viewing it, the list goes on. The fact that it is second hand info even makes it a little bit more shacky.

I have no doubt that the divas a Rockets can be a quality speaker. but I would feel real uncomfortable recommending it, unless I have heard them myself. It is such a personal thing, and everybody has different taste (and many seem to prefer B&W based on sales figures)

 

[Phil A]

Rodney, you are exactly right. They do look like excellent quality from the website and I'm sure they very good potential to sound decent. The problem is when you get them and think they may be better than they are since you can't have the variety of products on hand that a store has. Some things also sound better with certain electronics and one can't do the comparison online.

 

[KeithR]

First, I agree with Larrys assessment of B&W.
You might also look to the Dynaudio audience line for kicks
As far as Rockets...none of the direct speaker manufacturers have great resale value. This is one aspect B&W is good for. FYI- i have owned nOrh, ACI, etc.
ALso, all the garbage they feed you about "these speakers would retaill for 1mm dollars....blah, blah" If one turns to the used market, you can get the non-direct speakers for the same price. If you think the value is great, go for it...but I would rather have something with an established name.
Just my 2 cents...

 

[Jonathan K]

Hi, I'm back, and I have a pretty angry rant.
I guess you thought different cause I didn't quite clarify my mindset, and I guess I was a dissenting voice with a few unsettling arguments, and I *also* had a few flaws in my arguments. True, I haven't heard as many speakers as I would like to, but that's really not what I'm going to talk about today. What I have to say now has a bit more to do with a rant in general... I know B&W makes good speakers that tend to beat others for the money and sound great, but that's not my problem. The way B&W sets up their lineup is so you could theoretically only buy their speakers your entire life, consistantly upgrading your thing up through the B&W lineup, with there always being a next better step for you to go to... Everyone here seems to talk about B&W being a big company with lots of support, and you can't seem to believe that they can be beaten for the money... why not? With that many speakers in it's lineup, is *EVERY* speaker, or EVERY line in B&W's repitoire going to be the best value for your money at any given moment? Of course not! There will always be something better if you but LOOK.. it seems like you aren't buying speakers, but you are paying for security, knowing that B&W is a "reputable" company with lots of stuff for lifetime buyers. Um, are you guys INSANE? Who wants to spend all of their life only listening to one brand of speakers, just because they 'take care of you'? We are buying a *speaker* here, not a marriage! Maybe it's just me, but I am not digging this lifetime brand loyalty thing. I think it might be because I am Gen Y, and I guess my generation doesn't HAVE a big concept of brand loyalty...
What I would do at any given moment is find the product that best suits my needs. In the case of speakers, I would find the individual set of speakers that gives me the best upgrade for my room and uses to get the highest sound quality, and I would make sure that the place that I was buying from had good customer service and a good return policy, and I would get it as inexpensively as possible. I'm not buying a safety blanket of knowing that I have big momma B&W to tuck me in at night, I'm buying a set of speakers! I guess we're all buying an emotion here.... you are paying for a nice, big, secure name that lets you sleep at night, knowing that you will always have a bigger and better speaker for you in this lineup, and that they will be there for you, because you are giving them a rediculous amount of money. WTF? You are just paying for the price of the speakers, to MAKE THEM EXPENSIVE FOR NO PARTICULAR REASON! If *I* buy a set of speakers, I make sure the distributor is good and has a good return policy, the aesthetics of the speakers are good, the build quality is good, and that I am paying for the best damn speaker for my uses that *MY* money can buy! I guess the rush that *I* get is from knowing that I got the most bang for my buck that I could manage... you would be happy knowing they sound good and that you buy from a big name.
I swear, this audiophile market is screwed up. Why do you pay thousands more than you have to when getting a quality speaker? That's what B&W, the big, well-established company MEANS! I wanna buy speakers for the SOUND (and a few other things, but mostly the sound), cause that's what your money is supposed to pay for! That's why I like internet direct so much.. it cuts out the hassle of paying for these extra, extrenuous fees that jack the price of a speaker up. And if you get b-stock from an internet direct company, hell, that's an even better deal! I was talking to one of the owners of a local audio shop. He was a nice guy, and he sold a lot of nice sounding speakers from a company called "Castle", and the subject of internet direct sales came up. He said that was good, if all you were buying was the speaker... I asked him, 'but, um, isn't the only thing I am BUYING a speaker?' and then he went on to try and describe a vague concept about a brick and mortar store being there for you, and something about service, and walking you through a problem.. I guess this reminds me of some of the friends of my parents who buy a new Lexus every two years or so, and they only buy from *THEIR* dealer.. I don't really understand that concept. You wait for the latest and greatest from one company that is 'good' to be presented to you, and then buy, instead of actively having fun and taking some time to go research FAR away, figure out all of the other fascinating concepts that companies all over have down the line (like, go to car shows, find who is doing what, wait for a product to come out, find an inexpensive place to buy it...) I bet that person could make their money go a LOT further if they did that, for, in these products, isn't it the chase that counts? We know that there will never be a perfect loudspeaker -- it's impossible. Same with a luxury car... but the chase, the looking for the best, the act of finding the best deal, and finding out exactly what is best for YOU is where a lot of the fun is, especially if you know, in your gut, cause you LOOKED, that you have bought the best damn thing out there for your needs and budget!
Guys, internet direct speaker companies *USED* to not be able to do the customer service thing, they USED to not be able to take care of customers like my friend in the local store was talking about, but things have been changing... and internet direct companies are now profitable *giving* all of that incredibly kickass service, and an extremely high value product too! check out www.av123.com and www.headphone.com to see what I mean; these are two companies that are internet-direct, charge pretty cheap prices, have AWESOME service, and can get these products WAY cheaper than you would at a B&M store!! That is, if you are okay with the concept of buying the best built, best sounding product for your money, from a company with really incredible customer service, instead of buying a security blanket....

 

[MarcEM]

I have owned B&Ws for the last 3 years. I started with 4 DM302s and a CC3. And about a year later upgraded my fronts to 2 602s and a CC6. I didn't feel the need to replace the rears. The fronts are bi-wired using M Series Monster Cable. I am due for another upgrade soon, probably to the CM Series. I am very happy with the sound that these speakers produce. Don't expect them to reproduce alot of bass though. I'm sure that you will be very happy with B&W. I have recommended them to many people. Those who have bought them are very happy.

Good Luck
Marc

 

[rodneyH]

Jonathon, you seem to rip on B&W for having a full line, let me offer this perspective, I had 602s and love the B&W sound, so when I upgrade, I go to the CDM7NTs, not I have 804s on order. see, If you like a particular characteristic in a speaker and how it sounds, them when you upgrade you have a natural transition. What happens if you won the lottery and you own Rockets, or you simply get bit by the upgrade bug (and don't tell me that you will NEVER want to upgrade b/c they are the best speaker ever, that doesn't fly), what next, do you feel like you need to go to a different brand, but you may not like a particular characteristic of the other speaker, but like the overall package better than the rockets, so you get them. you look at this as a bad thing, I disagree.

since you bring up cars, I can tell you (since my family owns car dealerships) that car companies invest millions of $$$ investing in this very principal.

start out with a Civic, get through college, get an Accord, get out and live on the edge and buy an S2000, get a family and buy an acura TL/CL, (and your wife buys a MDX, since you already love the Acura "feel") later in life hit a mid-life crises and get an NSX!!! and get your 16 year old daughter a new civic (and the process continues), see how it works (this can be done with every major car company, they don't want to loose bussiness)!!!!

so you look at it as a negative, I look at it as a very natural transition.

 

[BobJ]

Matt,
I like B&W, but would also suggest you also give a listen to PSB and Paradigm. The PSB 2B makes a nice bookshelf speaker for both HT and music.
2B sample review:
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/psb_image2b.htm
The PSB 4T tower also makes a nice HT/music speaker in a bookshelf sized package (when speaker stands are considered). 4T review:
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?330
I agree the best thing to do is to get out there and listen to several brands/designs in person. Nothing beats your own ears, since you are the one who ultimately has to listen to them day in and day out.

 

[James_N_H]

Jonathan K,
If B&W has a full line up of speakers why MUST people stay with them? Their is no reason to, you may find something that you like more, and B&W is not the only line of speaker in the world to have a broad range.

B&W can be beaten for the money, but do I have to say it for the last time, it is down to peoples tastes and what they like, for me when I tested them they beat everything in my price range, others may have found the same others may not. B&W arent the first make of speakers I have ever owned, they are about the 6th for me. How can you say their will ALWAYS be something BETTER if you look? Why do you think people audition equipment, its called LOOKING and people buy on the basis that they like what they hear.

To Quoute yourself,
'What I would do at any given moment is find the product that best suits my needs. In the case of speakers, I would find the individual set of speakers that gives me the best upgrade for my room and uses to get the highest sound quality, and I would make sure that the place that I was buying from had good customer service and a good return policy, and I would get it as inexpensively as possible.'
Which is exactly what I and probably many others have done buying B&W's.

If B&W's are so much of a rip off as you say why when they are tested by the hi-press do they do so well? Also how do they manage to compete with other speaker makes if they are so expensive, oh that would make every other speaker make expensive aswell as B&W's are very competitively priced.

Why do you keep bringing internet direct companies into the matter, they have nothing to do with the argument, or are you just on a wind up to see how many people you can annoy?

 

[Jonathan K]

I'm sorry.... I'm REALLY REALLY sorry. I got angsty, and I saw a scapegoat, and I lashed out, making up a problem and making up an enemy...

I really have nothing against you all, or B&W.. It was stupid of me to label all of this negatively; no one has done anything wrong to me...

I worked myself up, and got a thrill from seeing what would happen, and I didn't look at the consequences... I'm sorry.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Rodney H,

If you like the B&W sound, take a look at Theils the next time you're speaker shopping. They have nothing in the 600 series price range, but once you get in the range of the 800 "Nautilus" series from B&W Theil offers a speaker like with a similar sonic "signature", but better, more musical sound, and not quite so bright. IMO of course. And they require some serious amplification to really shine (just ask Phil A).

My next speakers (in about a decade or two) will most likely be Theils, I really love the sound of them.