Any Pearl Jam fans? (1 Viewer)

[Rain]

Vedder is one of the most pretentious and preachy characters in rock.

Rubbish. This is what the PJ haters would have you believe and what they have projected on the man they despise.
What makes him pretentious? The fact that he writes lyrics that actually have some sort of personal expression and meaning. Or is it the fact that he keeps his private life fairly private? Is it that his face isn't on MTV every 5 minutes and he hardly ever appears in videos?
If that's pretentious, we could use more of it in music.

 

[Mike Broadman]

I say he's pretentious and I don't hate him. I said he was pretentious when I was a huge fan. Like I said, that's part of the fun.

He's pretentious because he's whiny, bitchy, and uses his celebrity to push politics. Like most artists, he thinks he knows better, is somehow enlightened, and has to preach to us poor slobs. That's OK, 'cause that's how most people think. Some are just less annoying about it.

Here's a cute little Vedder story I heard. I don't know if it's true, and I don't care, so don't yell at me, I just think it's amusing. Vedder hates his stepfather. I believe that's what Better Man is about. People have met and befriended his stepfather, and he's supposedly a great husband, a nice guy, and really tried to make good w/ Vedder. Vedder would rather have his "angst" and complain. Again, I don't know how true this is, it's just funny.

Vedder isn't particularly pretentious. Not more so than, say, Bono or Sting or Michael Stipe. And certainly not more so than actors *shudder*. He's just one of many who is.

 

[Rain]

Love your reply, Mike. Thank you for citing an example which proves exactly my point. You openly admit that you don't know if that story about his stepfather is true, but yet try to use it to support your argument. Rather, I think it supports mine: that the popular perception of Vedder is based on that which has been projected upon him, not anything he himself has said or done. Of course, this happens quite often to many artists.
As for being political, we all have political opinions, whether we are famous or not. Vedder's fame does not render his opinions invalid. That being said, though I know he participates in quite a few benefit shows and the like, I don't recall him doing too much political soap-boxing. Perhaps I missed something. Care to enlighten me?

 

[Anthony Moore]

Eddie writes mostly about what he has been through. The story of his stepfather is kinda like this:

He grew up thinking his stepfather was his real dad. His mom didnt tell him until he was 13 years old who his real dad was. Come to find out his real dad was a family friend that came around often. His mom fianlly told him because his real dad was about to die. She wanted him to talk to his real dad as his son before he died. Hence the song "Alive" Listen to the words and youll get that story. "Im still Alive" is his mom sayin that to him , Eddie, that she's still Alive, isnt that good enough? Well, it wasnt good enough for Eddie and he went through some serious shit. So all in all, he doesnt hate his stepfather, its just an odd situation.

Almost all of his songs are from his own experience. He doesnt like the media much cause he wants to live as normal of a life as possible. And i dont blame him. As I said in an earlier post, i dont think he'd do things the same way if he could go back 12 years or so.

GOOD TOPIC! Glad I started it. I didnt know there were some real fans around HTF.

 

[Mike Broadman]

I don't recall him doing too much political soap-boxing. Perhaps I missed something. Care to enlighten me?

Well, I did see him writing something on his arm about Pro-Choice on stage in the middle of a song. I used to own a rare live album, and he talked a lot (not about politics, but I hate it when they talk and don't play) and sang some awful covers. Also, if it is indeed Vedder who dictates more of the creative direction of the band (which I'm not sure if it is, because I haven't been following them, but it sure seems that way), then it's no coincidence that the songs are not as heavy as they were and focus more on Vedder's vocals.

Eddie Vedder is sort of a modern day Fish (first singer from Marillion): the most recognisable personality in the band, deeply personal lyrics that are often obscure, and pretty much just messed up. I liked Fish, so, again, a little pretentiousness is fine.

 

[Rain]

Mike, don't get your shorts in a knot. I'm finding this discussion quite interesting.
However, I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on what constitutes "pretentious."

 

[Ryan_C]

Hmmm, this is an interesting discussion!
I both agree and disagree with Ed being pretentious. I think he is a little, but no overly so. He does tend to talk sometimes at his shows (which I think is cool, makes me feel more like he is trying to connect with the audience and have fun, versus just playing and that's it.) And he does occasionally badmouth Bush and Gore in a joking sense, and try to get people to vote. This doesn't bother me at all. I think it quite funny, and I think getting people to vote is a good thing. Kinda like an Aerosmith Rock the Vote commercial I saw a long time ago, it said something along the lines of: (paraphrased) "it doesn't matter who you vote for, as long as you vote. If you don't vote, don't bitch about the way things are." Which I think is what Ed is saying.
The only time I think Ed was overly pretentious was at the 96 Charlotte, NC show, which was added on the tour at the last minute when the band found out Jesse Helms said he was retiring, and they decided to have a show to celebrate in his state. He got a little pretentious there, and even brought Gloria Steinham out to talk to the crowd about voting and stuff. That I could have done without.
Other than that I think Ed as well of the rest of the band just wants to live as normal a life as possible and make music for their fans.
Has anyone read the book "Five Against One" by Kim Neely, I think that is the name and author? It is an biography of sorts about the band, and a pretty good read.

 

[Ryan_C]

While we are discussing PJ, let me run this past you all. Now I really respect people's opinion, like some of those above who don't like PJ anymore, or think they haven't matured. I obviously disagree, but I respect their opinion. But what really pisses me off is when someone says something to the effect of "Their first album was good, but after that they sold out." In the immortal words of Fenster from the Usual Suspects, whathafu....?
Ok, let's look at some quick facts about PJ.
1) They took Ticketmaster to court to try to keep the ticket prices for their fans DOWN, and had the likes of Garth Brooks and John Denver supporting them. And I haven't ever paid more than $30 to see a PJ show at a large venue.
2) Even before the Roskilde tragedy, PJ had their own padded barricades made and put up at each show for the fans safety.
3) They released every show on the 2000 Binaural tour as a 2-disc bootleg for $10.98, for the fans.
4) They quit making videos and tried to stay out of the limelight so the music could speak for itself.
5) They have more than once joked in interviews about the ever decreasing sales of their albums compared to Ten and Vs., and gone on to say THAT IS FINE WITH THEM b/c the people who bought the albums were the real fans.
I think that is enough to make my point. If they sold out, then stick a tail up my ass, give me some big ears and call me Mickey Mouse. I don't know of any other band that does as much for the fans as PJ does. At times I think they are one of the last bands who truely care about the music and little else.
Ok, sorry for the rant, I will step down now.

 

[Anthony Moore]

and I think getting people to vote is a good thing.

Yes! this is great. This past summer tour i actually worked for the band and toured with them 8 shows. I registered people to vote before the shows (if you signed up to vote during the first leg of the US tour, it was probably with either me or one of my two friends). It was called Rock The Vote. Pretty good idea if you ask me.

 

[Alex Shk]

Even though I stated above that I didn't have much interest in them these days, I DO respect the Ticketmaster thing. I also think they support their fans well via an active, and USEFULL fan club. I also like the variations in their live setlists - the only other bands that ever offered their fans such variety at concerts are the Dead, Phish, and Springsteen.

I didn't care for their first "official" live album (I expected more - it seemed like a "rush job" to me). I would like to offer the "hardcore" fans a task - come to a consensus on the "official" bootlegs, and recomend one. IT CANNOT BE A CONCERT/VENUE THAT YOU ATTENDED. Why? I feel the purpose behind releasing these CD's was to offer fans an "ultimate souvinier". Maybe they didn't release the night you saw them, but they released the next...

It help's to know that I LOOOVE off the cuff or unexpected cover songs, b-side rarities, funny ad libs, all of those other things that make a concert a PERSONAL live experience as opposed to that "greatest hits live" lp delivered by the record company. Sound quality is not a big issue, unless it's unlistenable.

 

[Dean DeMass]

I use to be a huge Pearl Jam fan and I still am a fan. I rate their albums like this.
1. Vs.
2. Ten
3. Yield
4. Vitalogy
5. Binaural
6. No Code
IMHO, No Code shouldn't even be on the list. I'm sorry, but that album just plain sucks. No Code is what really took me away from Pearl Jam. When Yield came out, I got excited again. It was a great, traditional Rock 'n Roll album and every song was great (In Hiding is my fav). Most of my favorite PJ songs are also the b-side stuff, such as Wash, Yellow Ledbetter, State of Love and Trust, Breath. After hearing Binaural, I got a bit disappointed again. It is a good album, but it is a step down form Yield.
I appreciate what the band does for the fans and they are talented musicians. However, IMHO, Mike McCready's best work is on the Mad Season album. With nobody holding him back, his writing worked so well with Layne Staley's vocals and it sounds like those two were really meant to play together. That is one thing I wish I could have, another Mad Season album. :frowning:
Pearl Jam is Eddie, Stone, and Jeff's band. Everybody else is just there for support. This is all IMHO of course.
BTW, I do love there $11 live CDs. They are really good and they are a great band live. I had the pleasure of seeing them on the Vs. and Vitalogy tour.
-Dean-

 

[Anthony Moore]

didn't care for their first "official" live album (I expected more - it seemed like a "rush job" to me). I would like to offer the "hardcore" fans a task - come to a consensus on the "official" bootlegs, and recomend one. IT CANNOT BE A CONCERT/VENUE THAT YOU ATTENDED. Why? I feel the purpose behind releasing these CD's was to offer fans an "ultimate souvinier". Maybe they didn't release the night you saw them, but they released the next...

without doubt, goto the website (www.tenclub.net) and get the KATOWICE, POLAND disc, from the 2nd night. It has some rare stuff like a Split Endz cover. Plus that night, since it was a spontaneous concert, wasnt a packed house, and you can hear Eddie changing the setlist for whatever the crowd was cheering for. It was great, and its my fave live album.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I don't recall him doing too much political soap-boxing.

Dunno if you went to any 2000 concerts, and even if you did, maybe they didn't do this in Canada, but the US shows were absolutely rife with political commentary since they came during the presidential campaign. Eddie REALLY stumped for Nader...

And some people need to acquaint themselves with the definition of "pretentious". It's up to you to decide if Eddie, Bono, Sting or others who are heavily into issues are annoying, but there's virtually nothing PRETENTIOUS about it...

 

[Mike Broadman]

And some people need to acquaint themselves with the definition of "pretentious". It's up to you to decide if Eddie, Bono, Sting or others who are heavily into issues are annoying, but there's virtually nothing PRETENTIOUS about it

pre•ten•tious

Pronunciation: (pri-ten'shus), [key]

—adj.

1. full of pretense or pretension.

2. characterized by assumption of dignity or importance.

3. making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.

Preaching politcs during a concert performance is certainly "characterized by assumption of dignity or importance."

Frank Zappa, possibly my favorite musician of all time, did this as well. He was pretentious, too.

Pretentiousness alone shouldn't be a criteria as to whether you like an artist or not, it should be music. Heck, most artists and almost all celebrities are pretentious.

 

[Rain]

Preaching politcs during a concert performance is certainly "characterized by assumption of dignity or importance."

Sorry, Mike, but you are projecting again. Where is the "assumption of dignity or importance" when it comes to political views? Simply stating an opinion does not qualify as "pretentious"...unless Vedder is stating that his opinion is more valid than anyone elses because he's a rock musician. It sounds to me like you are assuming he feels that way.

 

[Anthony Moore]

alright! a two-page PJ thread

i couldnt be happier...

Now, with all the arguing going on, this is what I have to say. I goto the concerts and buy the discs for one reason: to hear the music. If Eddie wants to preach politics in between songs, its ok with me. As long as he sings his best and puts everything into all of his performances (which, in my opinoin, he does)

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Sorry, Mike, but you are projecting again. Where is the "assumption of dignity or importance" when it comes to political views? Simply stating an opinion does not qualify as "pretentious"...unless Vedder is stating that his opinion is more valid than anyone elses because he's a rock musician. It sounds to me like you are assuming he feels that way.

What he said!

 

[Jarrod_L]

I'm not going to proclaim myself the biggest Pearl Jam fan in the world, even though I do own all their albums, a good deal of the official bootlegs, their dvd's, named my cat 'corduroy' after the PJ song, and have been to a handfull of concerts.
I'm not going to tell you all that they are the greatest rock band of all time, or that No Code is much better than Ten, or that Yield may have been the best rock record to come out in the last ten years.
If you don't believe these things, that's your opinion and I'm not going to change it by telling you otherwise.
But it's the truth.

 

[Michael Tucker]

Another PJ fan chiming in. When Ten came out I was just graduating from high school and the music really fit my mood at the time. It seems as time has gone on and I've gotten older, PJ's music seems to has changed as well.
Eddie definately takes the time to support the political and social causes he believes in. I believe he performed at several Nader rallies during the campaign. I don't always agree on where he stands, but at least he stands for something and I gotta respect that.
Even with all the great music they've released I'm going to have to go with Ten as my personal favorite. That album is just classic.
Also, anyone looking to acquire some high-quality need to look no further than this discussion group at Yahoo. A great list for those looking to trade PJ bootlegs for just the cost of a CD-R. Even the recently released "official" bootlegs may be traded with the band's blessing.

 

[Anthony Moore]

thanks for the Yahoo link.
anyone else who is a fan, be sure to visit the website:
http://www.sonymusic.com/artists/PearlJam/
check out the BBS...i post there about 3 times a day...and the board is like the HTF, theres always people posting ALL THE TIME