RYAN’S DAUGHTER: Discussions for a BD Release (2015 - 2024) (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

4k is 8k

Which means 8k scan taken down to 4k and the previous scenario being 4k taken down to HD?

 

[Robert Harris]

Which means 8k scan taken down to 4k and the previous scenario being 4k taken down to HD?

No

To create assets, scan 65mm at 8k and finish at 4.

To create a quality Blu-ray, run a color-timed 65 IP at HD Rez

Once again, difference in cost about 500,000.

 

[PMF]

NOTE: This message for "Flicks" was intended to come with a quote box and pertained to his two Posts of #365 & 367; which kindly supplied us with 5 location photos from "Ryan's Daughter", taken within this week:

A most thoughtful and wonderful contribution to this thread.
There's something powerful about seeing a contemporary set of photos, some 46 or 7 years after the shoot.
Wish I could walk along that beach or down those cobblestones.
Its still a beautiful sight.
Thank you, Flicks !!!

 

[PMF]

Deleted by PMF
2nd attempt to create quote box failed.

 

[PMF]

No

To create assets, scan 65mm at 8k and finish at 4.

To create a quality Blu-ray, run a color-timed 65 IP at HD Rez

Once again, difference in cost about 500,000.

"Brother, can you spare a dime?"

 

[Flicks*]

NOTE: This message for "Flicks" was intended to come with a quote box and pertained to his two Posts of #365 & 367; which kindly supplied us with 5 location photos from "Ryan's Daughter", taken within this week:

A most thoughtful and wonderful contribution to this thread.
There's something powerful about seeing a contemporary set of photos, some 36 or 7 years after the shoot.
Wish I could walk along that beach or down those cobblestones.
Its still a beautiful sight.
Thank you, Flicks !!!

You are very welcome.
I'm sorry I didn't take more photos but I'm nursing a sprained ankle at the moment and I couldn't go on the sand.
I'll take some more another time.

 

[OliverK]

No

To create assets, scan 65mm at 8k and finish at 4.

To create a quality Blu-ray, run a color-timed 65 IP at HD Rez

Once again, difference in cost about 500,000.

Thanks, so a color timed 65 mm IP would have to be available.

A 4k scan is basically an HD telecine

Then I am curious how an upcoming 4k telecine from Europe will look that will also be used towards a UHD release, simliar to an 8k scan?

Sorry for asking so many questions but it was my impression that the days of HD telecines for large format films were over.

 

[PMF]

Ryan is most like an HD scan from a 35 IP.

A beautiful Blu-ray can be achieved by making an HD scan of a 65 IP.

concerning Scans; I'm still lost on one point.
I am unable to decipher whether Ryan's Daughter will warrant an HD scan from a 35 IP or a 65 IP.
What I'm interpreting from the first quote is that you're saying Ryan is most likely to be an HD scan from a 35 IP.
Whereas, in the second quote, I'm interpreting you to simply be stating an opinion; that being, with minimal increases on costs, a thing of beauty could occur were the ante to be upped with an HD scan of a 65 IP.
On both fronts, have I read you correctly?

 

[Robert Harris]

concerning Scans; I'm still lost on one point.
I am unable to decipher whether Ryan's Daughter will warrant an HD scan from a 35 IP or a 65 IP.
What I'm interpreting from the first quote is that you're saying Ryan is most likely to be an HD scan from a 35 IP.
Whereas, in the second quote, I'm interpreting you to simply be stating an opinion; that being, with minimal increases on costs, a thing of beauty could occur were the ante to be upped with an HD scan of a 65 IP.
On both fronts, have I read you correctly?

Correct

 

[Robert Harris]

Thanks, so a color timed 65 mm IP would have to be available.



Then I am curious how an upcoming 4k telecine from Europe will look that will also be used towards a UHD release, simliar to an 8k scan?

Sorry for asking so many questions but it was my impression that the days of HD telecines for large format films were over.

Not certain what you're asking.

UHD has nothing to do with scanning or telecine resolutions, or overall quality.

One can port an old VHS tape to UHD.

They're all just buckets.

 

[OliverK]

Not certain what you're asking.

UHD has nothing to do with scanning or telecine resolutions, or overall quality.

One can port an old VHS tape to UHD.

They're all just buckets.

Not certain what you're answering so I will just leave it at that, but how did you know that I have an old VHS tape of Ryan's Daughter?

 

[Robert Harris]

Not certain what you're answering so I will just leave it at that, but how did you know that I have an old VHS tape of Ryan's Daughter?

Your Xbox One has a camera.

 

[OliverK]

I should have known better and waited for a proper UHD Blu-ray Player...

 

[PMF]

Ryan is most like[ly] an HD scan from a 35 IP.

A beautiful Blu-ray can be achieved by making an HD scan of a 65 IP.

So, what would happen if WAC were to designate Criterion to be their licensee for "Ryan's Daughter"?
If such a scenario were to take place, what then?
Would Criterion then be so inclined as to take on the task of creating their own HD scan of a 65 IP?
Or would everything just simply remain the same; that being a likely HD scan from a 35 IP?

 

[Robert Harris]

So, what would happen if WAC were to designate Criterion to be their licensee for "Ryan's Daughter"?
If such a scenario were to take place, what then?
Would Criterion then be so inclined as to take on the task of creating their own HD scan of a 65 IP?
Or would everything just simply remain the same; that being a likely HD scan from a 35 IP?

Relevance?

How is Criterion in the mix?

What does anything have to do with what's scanned or T'cined?

 

[PMF]

Relevance?

How is Criterion in the mix?

What does anything have to do with what's scanned or T'cined?

I had thought that a couple of titles from the Warner library had found their way to Criterion.
Still very much a rank beginner, here, in terms of the technical side of things;
therefore, I didn't know if things were processed differently from house to house.

 

[PMF]

Well, aside from my being a technical novice, one thing is for certain...
I've got a keen eye for what looks good.
With that said, I'm hoping we'll still get a few more location shots posted here from Flicks;
who comes to us all the way from Ireland.

 

[PMF]

Ryan is most like[ly] an HD scan from a 35 IP.

Looks like it would be the 7th Warner / MGM title with a 65mm negative to come from a 35mm IP. [...] Seems to me like Warner has a rather bad track record of giving these movies their visual due as so far they only did one 8k scan of Ben-Hur and that was it.

If that is the case ,I'll stick with my Spanish bluray which looks terrific.

You mean the bootleg? Considering the HTF's position on bootleg and pirated materials, I wouldn't brag about it.

"Piracy is not a victimless crime".

The only problem I have with this statement and campaign is that it doesn't give the general public the actual details, breakdown and ripple effects of how Piracy brings such long-term damages; and to whom.
The fuller extent of Piracy and its ugliness requires a greater public awareness.
With that said, I would like to think that trajan007 was offering a bit of goading - if not challenging - humor to WAC, to ensure an HD scan from a 65 IP over a 35.

Now, if trajan007 was being serious then let me put forth to him the following bet.
On the day we see a WAC BD of "Ryan's Daughter" you, yourself, will acquiesce and gladly purchase the real thing.
In fact, you'll be unable to resist it.

Yes, OliverK's observations made a lot of sense to me; as we want the best-of-the-best; especially when it comes to 70mm fares. Indeed, it's a very easy wish to make and I would want the same, whenever possible. Collectively, though, my understanding of it all is that there are simply not enough monies to go around. Undoubtedly, a handsomely produced rendition of "Ryan's Daughter" that's been HD scanned from a 35 IP - and especially one that is legitimate - will exceed what we've ever known before.

All in all, my sense is that we feel certain compromises have been taking place towards the production of our cherished BD's. These days, though, I no longer believe that the compromises of BD outputs are compromises of quality; but, rather, a very realistic adjustment made in order to fulfill the demands of our never-ending "wish-lists" of titles to own, in an industry where monies are finite. Again, I understood where OliverK was coming from; yet RAH's rebuttal that this was "rather a damning, and unfair statement" was actually one of comfort. If RAH believed that true compromises were taking place, then he would be the first to cry "Fowl"...and on no uncertain terms. Compromising, in this case, would not be found in which Scans of what IP's are being used; but, rather, the compromises that come when supporting Piracy over the legitimacies of houses such as WAC, where utter respect towards their library and materials are undoubtedly matched with respect towards their viewers and the filmmakers, too.

 

[OliverK]

I can take no comfort in how especially Mutiny on the Bounty and Battle of the Bulge look. I do not feel entitled for them to look better as I know exactly that all the movies are supposed to pay their way so to say and we are told that these movies don't (without ever hearing about how many were sold to my knowledge) so they look how they do - outdated and only a shadow of their former visual splendor.

The thought of demanding an 8k scan for them is obviously ridiculous but at least one may have hoped for less digital manipulation of whatever data was available.

Others like Ice Station Zebra and Grand Prix look better and hopefully Ryan's Daughter will be at that level of quality.
Not comparable still to what has been achieved for other movies but again this is not about the best possible quality but about a relatively low cost and still acceptable way to release them, to make them good enough.

 

[PMF]

Mutiny on the Bounty and Battle of the Bulge. Weren't both of these released during the early stages of BD availability? The work WAC is doing now is superior to those earlier days of catalog title releases. I'm all for Mutiny and Battle receiving an updated release; along with The Music Man.

Now, in a more concise [and less long-winded] response to my own Post on Piracy, Scans, IPs et al; I was simply saying that it is my hope that anyone who inadvertently purchases illegitimate discs will support all of the houses; be it WAC, Criterion, Sony, TT, etcetera; by ordering the real deal upon BD availability. This hope is not strictly limited to "Ryan's Daughter"; but for all titles.

On the technical aspects of things, I am a rank beginner and student; and be it a discussion concerning transfers, restorations, IPs, etcetera, I was simply stating that I have complete faith that we are receiving the best possible efforts from WAC, Criterion, Sony TT, etcetera. I have a recollection of a long ago reading of a RAH response from another thread in which someone wrote - and I paraphrase - "If they could restore the 70mm 30fps Oklahoma!, then why can't they do the same with the 70mm 30fps version of Around the World in 80 Days?" RAH's response - and I paraphrase, again - was that these two 30fps titles had their different set of problems and that it wasn't as cut and dry as one would think. With that in mind, its not so hard for me to imagine that the same answer can be applied towards the voluminous titles being prepared for BD distribution. Available budgets, available prints, available this, available that; or the lack thereof; I imagine that there is just so much each team and facility can do while trying to satisfy our requests. But, once again, I am certain that each of the WAC's, Criterion's, Sony's, TT's; and now, even Olive's; are giving us their maximized efforts...and that each title comes with a completely different set of problems and/or considerations. "Staggering" is the word that most comes to mind when imagining all the work that they do; and their accomplishments within these past few years has been nothing short of magnificent.

Meanwhile, if for some fluky reason these cited BD facilities do let a few of our favorite titles fall through the cracks - in terms of sound and picture quality - then we've always got our Archivists and Reviewers watching the wall for us all.