Another Unjustified Claim That The New Onkyos Are Underpowered (1 Viewer)

[Lewis Besze]

The only thing that intrigues me is that how people will go at lengths quoting S&V measured ratings when they are favorable and once they come up with something like this, all sorts of doubts are being cast at the testing method.

I agree completely!
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"You Hungarians always disagree"

 

[JoelW]

We've currently got a 595 in the test lab. We removed the Outlaw 1050 and replaced it with the 595, while noticing a tremendous difference in weight, we haven't noticed much difference in amplification.
I believe the 595 is rated at 75watts, and from what I've seen I dont think that number is too far off. We push receivers incredibly hard and the 595 so far has responded very well.
I will say I was a little concerned when I picked up the 595 because it felt very light, but after you pick up the 42lb Outlaw, just about anything feels light.
I think there is more to the story that what we know, as I haven't seen a lack of power in our new Onkyo review unit.
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Joel White
Editor CheapHomeTheater.com

 

[Chris_Y]

First post!
I just hooked up the Onkyo 696 this past weekend. It definitely sounds better than the 60-watt prologic Yahama it replaced. Obviously the DD5.1 (played TSII)sounds better but playing CDs using just the L/R front speakers set to large sounded richer and fuller than the Yahama. The family thought it sounded much better as well. I have Mirage 1295is for the fronts that has a power subwoofer built-in.
I haven't had time to calibrate it yet using AVIA or Video Essentials.

 

[James Edward]

I have set up a number of Home Theaters for people and always recommend Onkyo because it met it's power specs and had high current amps. (These have all been set up in houses and everyone likes to listen on the LOUD side of reality). I'll definitely seek out the 575x and buy a few so I can use it until I find a suitable replacement. It has served me well...
I was also puzzled when I saw the S&V report a few days ago... The power specs were not up to the usual for Onkyo, and what's with the 4/8 ohm switch? I'd rather have a solidly built unit with few frills than another 75 DSP modes that sound ridiculous anyway... I agree that Onkyo has probably bitten the marketing B.S. bullet. Too bad.
Please post other brands that will meet their specs with all channels driven, and don't require an impedance switch.

 

[DaveF]

I'm a bit amused that so much stock is (apparently) placed in how heavy a receiver seems to weigh. I'm reminded of a story from a friend, a retired Kodak engineer. He was one of the designers of the Kodak Disc camera, which was one of the first, lightweight, compact, plastic cameras. But because people, unfamiliar with plastic cameras, were put off by its lightness. So, Kodak put lead weight into the camera to give it more heft. And so people thought the cameras were no longer as cheap.
Moral: External perceptions don't necessarily say anything about the product.

 

[Jeremy Anderson]

Jeremy, Don't know if you have continued to watch that other thread but it seems someone posted to it and said they had the same problem with the same Sub as you did on TS II. They said it turned out there was something wrong with the amp in the sub and Polk replaced it and the problem went away.

I never said I had a problem with my Polk PSW350 sub... I was just saying that intro to Toy Story 2 is the only DVD I have where I can hear port chaffing, which isn't indicative of a defect so much as it is a hell of a lot of air being moved. That other person had one that was clipping because of a bad amp.
The only problem I have in my HT is my receiver is a JVC RX-778VBK with no DTS! But my Onkyo 595 should be here next week, so I'll be selling the JVC off cheap.

 

[Jim_C]

>>This is a bothersome thing if you are correct

 

[Scott Strang]

DaveF
Rochester, NY had this to say;

I'm a bit amused that so much stock is (apparently) placed in how heavy a receiver seems to weigh. I'm reminded of a story from a friend, a retired Kodak engineer. He was one of the designers of the Kodak Disc camera, which was one of the first, lightweight, compact, plastic cameras. But because people, unfamiliar with plastic cameras, were put off by its lightness. So, Kodak put lead weight into the camera to give it more heft. And so people thought the cameras were no longer as cheap.
Moral: External perceptions don't necessarily say anything about the product.

AT&T and Bell did that with handsets on their phones; apparently people have equated weight with quality for many years even though in something like a phone it isn't necessary.
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"Politicians and diapers have one thing in common; both should be changed regularly and for the same reason."
Stolen from some guy on the net.

 

[Ryan Schnacke]

My 595 is driving a full set of nOrh 4.0's (87dB sensitivity) in a 6000+ cu ft room. And a single SVS for torturing my house's foundation. I just recently borrowed an Avia disc, so its all nice and calibrated (at 75dB = 10dB under reference). All speakers set to small.
Now I don't know who decided reference level needed to be so freaking loud, but personally I don't see any need to listen to movies any louder than about [Ref - 8dB]. And even that is way loud. I'll listen at [Ref -10dB] and at that point the sub is probably at max excursion during Toy Story 2 with a +2dB boost over the other channels. The main speakers don't sound like they're straining from lack of excursion or power.
Playing music, this system will play quite loud. Even using direct mode which sends the full signal to the front left and right and nothing to the sub or other speakers, it can play uncomfortably loud without a hint of strain. This is all in a very large room.
I'm satisfied. And whether it uses 75 watts or 7.5 watts to do this, I don't care.
As an aside, the whole issue of some manufacturers overrating receiver power gets a lot of attention. But I wonder if some of the same thing happens with speaker efficiency ratings. My nOrhs replaced some floorstanding Pioneers that claimed 93dB, but I don't remember the new speakers needing +6dBs to hit the same volume. Maybe I'll do a little comparison with the sound meter while I've got the Avia disc. After all, 90dB from a 93dB speaker is just as bad as 50 watts from a 100 watt receiver.

 

[MaxY]

Lewis,
I just scoured that issue and saw no comments from David Randa on the 696 and it's measuremnts. In the little tech talk box there is very little in the way of an explaination from Daniel. Am I Missing something.
Jermey,
The post I refered to was not yours but from someone who post after your post. He said he had the same sub as you and had the same problem with TS II. Polk replaced the sub and the problem went bye bye. You might want to check into it. There maybe a problem with some of Polks sub amps.
Ryan
The unit you are talking about is notthe same as the unit in question here.
Jim,
I don't see what the big deal about the switch is all about. Other companies have done this. Yamaha does it as well.
Max
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[Ryan Schnacke]

The unit you are talking about is notthe same as the unit in question here.

True, but the 595 came out at the same time as the 696 and it too has the 4 ohm switch in the back. Somebody asked what 595 owners thought, so I put in my 2 pesos.

 

[Baldemar Garcia]

The only problem I see with the 4/8ohm switch, is that for years Onkyo has bashed other companies for using them. Claiming they were needed because those particular receivers didn't have the current needed to supply clean power for large transients. The link may still be there on their Japanese website.
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bgarcia

 

[NickSP]

Whats all this talk about power ratings? The important question is do the 696 owners feel it is underpowered?
Also, I don't believe that the unit which S&V got was defective. Upon reading the review, Onkyo would have sent another unit to S&V to correct it or would have released some press to that effect.
But since nothing of that nature occured, I believe in S&Vs review and that's that.

 

[Evan A]

S&V has a forum section on their website that the editors post at. Mabie someone might like to post this their? I dont understand the argument well enough to start a post.

 

[Jeremy Anderson]

Jermey, The post I refered to was not yours but from someone who post after your post. He said he had the same sub as you and had the same problem with TS II. Polk replaced the sub and the problem went bye bye. You might want to check into it. There maybe a problem with some of Polks sub amps.

Max, thanks for the heads up, but if you read his post again, he's talking about the problem the guy is having with his Polk powered towers, not me. He was getting the same kind of pop from his Polk sub that the guy was getting from the subs in his towers. My PSW350 hasn't had a bit of trouble, and has never popped or bottomed, even with Toy Story 2 at reference levels (set with Avia, all speakers set to small, sub +3db).

 

[Evan A]

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/cgi...=45&LastLogin=

 

[Phil Iturralde]

FYI: Compare the following Onkyo's Receiver S&V benchmarks
JUL/AUG 99 = ONKYO TX-DS474
Dec-98 = ONKYO TX-DS555
Sep-99 = ONKYO TX-DS575
Nov-00 = ONKYO TX-DS575X
JUL/AUG 01 = ONKYO TX-DS696
Sep-00 = ONKYO TX-DS989
FEB/MAR 00 = ONKYO TX-DS777
@ my website http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm

 

[Julian Data]

Max,
Randa did an article on the explanation on power testing several isssues ago on why he does it. I need to find the issue.
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[Phil Iturralde]

Julian: Look for the APRIL 2001 Sound & Vision issue.
Phil
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http://www.geocities.com/p_iturra

 

[Lewis Besze]

Lewis,I just scoured that issue and saw no comments from David Randa on the 696 and it's measuremnts. In the little tech talk box there is very little in the way of an explaination from Daniel. Am I Missing something.

What Phil and Julian said.
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"You Hungarians always disagree"