Another one about lawyers (1 Viewer)

[Todd K]

http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost...05260000b.html

I was going to write a letter to the editor, but figured I'd better not for fear of getting sued for libel.

Of course, what the boy did is unacceptable behavior, but I was more disturbed by the attitude of Assistant State Attorney Ellen Mancini.

To quote the article, "Despite the boy's age and the rarity of the crime ... Mancini said she would be comfortable prosecuting it."

If prosecuted, this boy faces "several years in a juvenile detention facility." Therefore, to me, Mancini is indirectly stating that she would feel "comfortable" ruining a young boy's life.

Just another day in the life, I guess.

 

[Michael Reuben]

The story isn't about "lawyers"; it's about a prosecutor -- a governmental position that the vast majority of lawyers never hold.

M.

 

[Todd K]

Ah, true. But that actually infuriates me a little more -- this is a higher position that one would hope is filled by someone with little more consideration with how the law is upheld.

I have an image in my mind of a TV show (or maybe commercial) I've seen within the last month or so. A group of people are sitting around the table laughing about lawyers, and someone asks, "Aren't you guys lawyers?" Their response is "No, we're attorneys."

Rgeardless of her status, this situation is something from which the 11-year-old may never recover.

(edit: I guess I'm just trying to express my initial disgust at a high ranked official displaying what I consider a "lawyer" mentality -- in her case, feeling "comfortable" about doing irrevocable damage to a boy's life. It's not like he murdered anyone or anything.)

 

[Glenn Overholt]

I can see the suspension, but cracked up when they never mentioned anything about the teacher that didn't sign out when she left the classroom. She should be fired.

If given the oportunity, how many here wouldn't try to pull that one off? And the teacher gets off scot free? Gee, mister bank manager, can we really go home tonight without locking the safe?

Glenn

 

[Yee-Ming]

If given the oportunity, how many here wouldn't try to pull that one off?

I think that's precisely why the prosecutor has decided she will prosecute: to set a deterrent.

just because my front door is unlocked, doesn't give you the right to walk in and help yourself to my belongings.

having said that, it isn't clear from the article what punishment is expected, the prosecutor said he "could" face several years, but that's merely saying what is permitted under the statute, and not what is likely to be handed down. and being the prosecutor, she isn't going to say "the statute provides for a maximum (say) of 5 years, but I expect it to be 6 months suspended since he's a little boy..." that would defeat the purpose of setting a deterrent.

 

[JayV]

... a "lawyer" mentality -- in her case, feeling "comfortable" about doing irrevocable damage to a boy's life.

Well, I had no idea. Anything else I should know about a lawyer's mentality?

-j

 

[Denward]

That's a little harsh, too.
How about making the punishment fit the offense? I think the 10 day suspension is appropriate for the kid. I hope the parents dish out a little more punishment. I think a reprimand is appropriate for the teacher.

Nothing else to see here. Move along.

 

[Todd Hochard]

Denward's on the money. 10 Day suspension is more than enough deterrent for grade school kids, IMO.

I'd personally like to know how many there are here that have never, not once in their life, cheated on anything -anything- school-related? Show of hands? [Sound of crickets chirping]

 

[Lee L]

I wonder if it is because the grades were on the computer that the authorities somehow think it is much worse than tampering with paper grades. Back in the day, a couple of kids in my class tried to change their grades by getting the teachers blue book from her desk and erasing the grades. They were suspended for a week. The computer is a tool just like a pencil and paper is a tool. If the kid had hacked in like in Wargames, maybe I could see worse than a one week suspension but to walk up to an unprotected computer certainly doesn't reveal any underlying malicious tendencies other that just wanting grades he didn't deserve.

The school's Administration and IT department really blew it on this one. Why is there an option to set screensaver password? This should be enforced. The grade software should have some built in time out anyway.

 

[Todd K]

Lee, it is because a computer is involved. The article states that when such actions are taken with a computer, it is automatically considered a felony.

I guess I also posted this as a reaction to realizing that a lot of stuff I did in grade school could have gotten me in serious trouble like this. This of course, leads me to think how quickly my life could have changed over something that, 15 years later, has no bearing or relevance to anything whatsoever.

JayV, sorry to sound stereotypical if you yourself are a lawyer. I know for certain I would channge my tune if I ever wound up needing one for my own purposes. Yet, to this day, all of my encounters with them have been very negative for me. I'd like to talk about them, but they all ended with me signing confidentiality statements! One incident from work a few years back, though, I can recall -- I made a very simple mistake in reporting something, yet within a short period of time I had the legal department swooping down to ask questions like "Are you trying to get us? Are you in league with people to undermine our company?"

 

[JayV]

Todd, at least 10% of any organization are shitbirds. It would be unfair to judge the other 90% on the behavior of a few shitbirds. It may be that you have exclusively dealt with that regrettable 10%. I don't know.

Maybe the assistant state attorney wants to make a statement and only intends to scare the kid. Maybe she made a mistake. Maybe she's an idiot.

Whatever the real reason, as Mike pointed out, I fail to see how this is "another one about lawyers." To put it another way, what would you think about an identical thread titled "another one about women/Floridians/college graduates?"

-j

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

I'd personally like to know how many there are here that have never, not once in their life, cheated on anything -anything- school-related?

That's me for one. AND I'm a lawyer with 9 years of post-secondary education. Honesty may be more prevalent than you presume.

 

[Todd K]

what would you think about an identical thread titled "another one about women/Floridians/college graduates?

I'd probably think someone was trying to vent some frustration. Sadly, it seems to be very prominent in the after hours forum lately. Looking right now at the approximately 40 threads on the first page, over 1/4 of them are people venting about something or other -- lawsuits, ebay, web theft, the NBA, people getting busted for pot, misconceptions about nuclear energy, dog shows, women (in the "dumped by girlfriend thread"), shaving, use taxes, duct tape, etc.

In any case, you are right Jay about those kinds of people in any profession. As I said earlier, some day a lawyer will probably save my ass and I'll be grateful. I guess it's just the nature of the beast. I am friends with a number of recent law school grads and they are all fine people (at least at this point).

 

[Ryan Wright]

Denward's on the money.

I also agree. The police never should have been brought into this. I am sick and tired of school districts pulling this shit. Problems in school are the responsibility of the school and the parents. Unless those problems are also serious criminal offenses, local authorities have no business getting involved (unless it's just to show up and scare the kid, which I have no problem with).

 

[Allen_Appel]

Changed all my 0's to 100's in that particular class.

Wasn't this the most dangerous thing you could have done? You're lucky you didn't receive an award at a special ceremony called in your honor.

 

[bruce townley]

This is fascinating. Question -- if an 11 year old boy broke into a liquor cabinet, became drunk, and then drove his parent's car, causing a collision which seriously injured someone, would we just consider this "hijinks" and write it off?? I doubt it. Most would say that this boy would need help, committed a crime, and the "justice system" MUST get involved.

Why is this any more acceptable? Is it because it is more of a "white-collar" crime? Is it because it was simply "changing grades," which is more socially acceptable (whatever it takes to get ahead) than driving drunk?

If this was a crime (depsite it happening in a school) the boy should be charged.

Look - he shows premeditation (saying he was doing one thing while planning on doing another) purpose and plan. He lies about it while in the process.

Do you not think this needs to be addressed??

And to place a caveat on this -- I, too am a lawyer, and I too never cheated in school. (Frankly I am so arrogant, I doubted anyone else would be smartet than I to cheat from ) So perhaps I am jaded.

 

[Seth_S]

Some cliche advice that I was once given:

If you're going to do the crime, be prepared to do the time.


While the punishment may be harsh for an 11 year-old, should the law function on a case by cases bases to accommodate the criminals' age and stupidity?

 

[Todd K]

While the punishment may be harsh for an 11 year-old, should the law function on a case by cases bases to accommodate the criminals' age and stupidity?

I believe it already does, though more at the sentencing level. That is how you have people getting out early (or paroled) for good behavior, different sentencing levels based on the judges decision, etc. And of course these things vary from state to state as well.

 

[Denward]

When I took government, I was told that in our system of checks and balances, the legislature makes the laws, the executive implements the laws, and the judicial interprets the law. Don't forget all three branches are inhabited by fallible human beings.

If you're going to apply the same standards to a juvenile committing a DUI hit and run or a murder or changing grades, then you seem to be leaving the judicial interpretation out of it. The letter of the law may say one thing, but it probably was not written with this particular type of crime in mind.

 

[Todd Hochard]

That's me for one.

Really. Never once in grade school, with a fleeting glance to another's paper for a history/spelling/reading test. Never a single- "hey, can I see your last problem on last night's homework?"

Interesting. I've always done VERY well in school (within the top ten students of every school I've ever attempted), but I can assure you that my homework, was the result of several people's effort. Having to do it got in the way of learning machine language, so I didn't. I asked my friends nice. I can't say that I've ever cheated on a test- though, in return for the homework "help," I can remember not shielding my test paper too much.
Post-high-school, different story. The material was a bit more important and the stakes a little higher (Nuclear Power), so all that went away.

And, yes, comparing changing elementary school grades to DUI manslaughter is WAY over the top, IMO. Common sense ought to apply, and we might consider that the pressure to perform may have come from home. Kids will do the darnedest things to please their parents.
And, editing books to make them look the way you want seems to be a national pastime. If Andrew Fastow and Ken Lay aren't rotting in jail, then neither should this kid. He's simply following the example provided by important, influential adults, no?

Todd