Another newbie with some questions (1 Viewer)

[rjaco]

This will be my first system and it will be used for movies and tv with music maybe once a month. Room is 12'x12'. My tv is does not have hdmi so that is not a concern for me. I am looking at buying a used receiver. Right now I am leaning towards a Yamaha. I found a used RX-659 and thinking about it or maybe a new 363. Trying to stay less than $200. I did find a Marantz 3001 in my price range but just not sure. For speakers, I was thinking about 4 BIC America DV62si Bookshelf Speakers. Two in front and 2 in back for surround. They are only $100 per pair so not sure how good they really are. Was figuring on spending around $400 for speakers. What about buying used speakers? I am afraid they will be about used up but don't know for sure. Saw a lot of used Polk on EBay. For the sub, I was think of something around $150-$200 range. Not sure on brand. Any ideas? What about the center speaker, do you have to use one? Don't really have a good place for one but could build a shelf just above the tv if that would work. There is so many ways a person can go that it makes it difficult to make a decision. I don't need anything fancy but would like something that sounds good and will last. Sure to have more questions later. Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[romeoz]

look at the Lifestyle Bose systems...they are a decent price and it will give you everything you want to start..

 

[rjaco]

romeo---you are one of the few people that I have seen that recommends getting bose. I will do some looking online at them.

 

[David Willow]

Please don't listen to this advice. BOSE generally loathed by those who know.

Bryan, please do some homework before you post. A simple search will tell you all you need to know. On the other hand, if you are here to troll, find another board. Thank you.

 

[David Willow]

Hi Randy,

So you budget for the everything is about $600?

You can find good deals on used equipment. Speakers, if treated right, will last a long, long time.

 

[rjaco]

Was planning on spending $600-$800. I think a $600 setup would do all I need. How much difference is there between satellite speakers and bookshelf speakers? I sure like the smaller size of the satellites. I don't have a problem getting the front speakers and a sub, then getting the rest later on if it makes that much difference. I have looked online for the last 2 days at all different receivers and speakers and it is all confusing. Just too many choices. I may have a chance to stop by and listen to some speakers tomorrow.

 

[David Willow]

It is better in the long run to purchase an AVR and speakers separately. If you don't rush into it, the speakers you buy today should last for a very long time. If you purchase them without listening, or get cheap ones to get by, you will most likely want to upgrade.

If you still want to get an 'out of the box' solution, have a look at these:

Amazon.com: Onkyo HT-S5100 - Home theater system with iPod cradle - 7.1 channel - silver: Electronics

Amazon.com: Onkyo HT-SR800 7.1 Home Theater Entertainment System (Black): Electronics

Both have a decent receiver and all the speakers you need. Again, the quality of the speakers is not the best, but the overall package is better than most all in one solutions (HTiB).

The big problem with 'cube' speakers is dynamic range. These tiny speakers just can't cover the range they need to so a 'bass module' is added to make up for their deficiencies. The bass module also has problems since it has to produce the higher frequencies that the speakers are supposed to handle, it can't produce the lower ones that a subwoofer normally handles. There are holes all over in the range and you end up missing entire parts of the sound. They make it seem like a good sound by emphasizing mid range material and cranking it up. The demos you get are tailored to thier speakers.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

One, they are overpriced, not decently priced.

Two, they will not give you "everything you want to start". Aside from poor performance, they are generally lacking in: support for HDMI, support for switching capabilities, support for HD audio, support for upconversion and support for upgrading in the future (due to proprietary configuration).

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

The main achilles heel of any "HTiB" system is a lack of connection and upgrade options. This applies more to the Bose systems than to most, quite apart from their being grotesquely over-priced and underperforming. ("No highs, no lows, it must be Bose" is not just a cute rhyme, it is a pretty accurate review.) You don't have to use tiny, limited-range speakers if you want inconspicuous. A speaker too small to see is a speaker too small to hear.

The Onkyo systems linked to above have much better connectivity and expansion options than most. Sony also makes some nice systems in your price range, including some with quite compact surround speakers. (Some of them let you add a wireless surround option later.)

Yes, you do want a center-channel speaker, and it should be timbre matched to the other two front speakers. That's one reason why buying speakers in sets (although not necessarily bundled with a receiver) makes sense.

David Willow is exactly right. If you're going to build up a system gradually, and on a budget, you should put most of the money into a decent AV receiver, which will last you a long time, and go cheaper on the speakers. You can gradually upgrade them later. (A good sub will produce the biggest perceived improvement. Follow that with upgraded front speakers and finally buy better surrounds.)

If you're looking for used stuff, I'd keep an eye out for Atlantic Technology speakers. Their packages start at around $1,000 retail, but someone upgrading a set that is a few years old might well be offering them for a price within your budget. I've had an AT package for about 10 years now. I am on my 3rd AV receiver with the same speakers and I love them. One of the things that most impressed me about the ATs is that they sound as good wiith two-channel music as they do with a busy DTS track, which is not always the case with HT speaker systems.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Brent_S]

Many ways to skin a cat.

J&R currently has the Polk R150 for $70/pair. Not quite as good a deal as the $50/pair Frys used to sell them for. Three pairs and you're at $210 and ready for a 6.1 setup. I had them in my living room system for a couple of years and feel they're nearly amazing given the price. There's only so much a 5.25" woofer can do, but their 60Hz low end rating is fairly honest so you could live without a sub for a bit if time would allow the budget to grow.

For a receiver, I'd stalk shoponkyo and accessories4less for a refurb Onkyo. The 506, which doesn't process HDMI audio, can usually be found for $150-160ish. Think I saw a 505 (2007 model) for $130ish recently. Even the 505/506's include Audyssey room correction. With a bit of budget creep, you're looking at a 605/606, which will process the latest HD audio codecs so you'll be ready for that future Blu-ray upgrade, for under $300.

With a 506 and 3 pairs of R150s...let's call it $360, leaving us a minimum of $240 for the sub.

To complete the instant gratification package, I'd look no further than this buyout at Parts-Express. Dr. Hsu goodness for $199 with free shipping is hard to beat. I'll take the rest on account and gift certificates, Pat...or you could stalk the Amazon and catch a Harmony 550 when it goes on sale again for $50.

That's how I'd spend $600.

-Brent

 

[rjaco]

Thanks for all the help. I never was planning on getting a htib. I was figuring on getting a cheaper receiver and good speakers. Then upgrading the receiver later on. Can anybody comment on the receivers and BIC speakers that I mentioned in my first post? I looked at Hsu speakers last night and sure do like them. May have to get a couple of speakers and a sub right now and work on the rest later.

 

[David Willow]

Unfortunately, good speakers are more than $100 a pair. The speakers that come with the Onkyo will be on par (or better).

A few years ago I had a Fluance speakers - Fluance SXHTB+ 5 Speaker Surround Sound Home Theater System

These with an Onkyo 606 would be OK for a starter system. Save some money and add a sub later.

I'm not familiar with HSU speakers (their subs are top notch), but I've heard good things about them.

If it was me, I would get the Onkyo HTiB. None of the speakers you are looking at (or were recommended) are ones that I would want to keep for the long term.

EDIT: Here's another thought... Maybe get the Onkyo 606 or the used Yamaha you mentioned and start your speaker quest with these - Bookshelf Speakers - M22 v2 - Axiom Audio. You could build from there. Add a center and sub and later get surrounds.

 

[rjaco]

Ok, think I will go with a Onkyo 506 or 505 receiver. Leaning to the 506. I found the 506 for $170 shipped and the 505 for $155 shipped. Is the 506 worth the extra $15? Still looking at speakers. Think I will get 2 speakers to use as fronts, a center speaker and a sub for now. Then can get 2 speakers for surround later on. I want to use bookshelf speakers, if anybody has more suggestions. I really appreciate all the help I can get.

 

[David Willow]

Randy,

Just keep in mind the 506 does not decode the newer HD formats and the HDMI is passthru only. This means it will only pass the audio/video to the tv. To get sound to the receiver, you have to connect a separate digital or analog cable.

 

[rjaco]

I am pretty sure my TV doesn't have the hdmi input, so that won't matter for the time being. For speakers, I am looking at Infinity and maybe a Dayton sub. Seems like I change my mind every few minutes. I have been on EBay looking.

 

[gene c]

Look at Audioadvisor.com for more speaker choices. Pay particular attention to Athena and Energy. Athena centers are no longer available new but should be on the used market. Energy has a few models at various price points and may just be what you are looking for. Their subs are pretty in-expensive too but not sure how they stack up against some others already mentioned. Don't forget to factor in shipping charges.

Also, look at ac4l.com for good prices on a variety of Onkyo products. Many are factory refurbished but they come with an Onkyo warranty. I have infinity Beta 20's, a C250 center and a pair of OWS-1's as surrounds and lov'em. Very smoooooth......for the price.

 

[rjaco]

Hey David, do you think the M22 v2 would be too much for the size of my room? It is 12'x12' with 10' ceiling. Would the M3 v2 be a better choice? Could I use the same speaker for front and rear? I was thinking a 10" sub would be plenty and and 8" would probably be too small.

 

[David Willow]

I don't think it would be too much. It is good to have some headroom. The M22 will have a better bass response until you get a sub. It not as small as a typical bookshelf...

Same thing with subs... You want to have headroom. Sometimes the size doesn't correlate with the sound. It is a combination of driver size, enclosure size, power, and design.

 

[Brent_S]

Personal opinion, of course.

Run, don't walk to eBay right now. Polk operates Polk Audio Direct eBa store to mostly offer refurbished items. Currently, there are three pairs of RTi A3s for $219/pair. New at somewhere like Crutchfield, they're $450. Disclaimer: I use RTi38s all around in my theater room...a several generations back version of the A3. $350/pair would move you into the Polk LSi series. $380 a pair gets you RTi A5 towers...

As I said...more than one way to skin a cat.

-Brent

 

[gene c]

For those on a serious budget the Monitor 30's for $79 a pair and the CS1 center, both in maple, would make for a decent system. Shipping will be $50 for 2 pair and a center. But don't let the price of a PSW10 sub trick you into buying it. It isn't even worth the $79 they're asking for it. Get one from PartsExpress instead.

The Polk FXi3 surrounds for $149 a pair is a pretty good deal too.

Also, you can get some real good prices on Infinity speakers from Harman Audio's eBay store if you win an auction. But their "Buy It Now" prices really aren't that good.