Another bass managment [mis]handleing.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Lewis Besze, Apr 15, 2002.

  1. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Elite -47A was already mentioned on another thread,however not in detail what was "left out" I think should raise some eyebrows IMO.

    Apperrantly timing delay[speaker distance compensation] worked for DVD-V and DVD-A but not SACD!

    Speaker selection[large,small: BM]works as usual for DVD-V and surprisingly for SACD but only for the center and and surround not the mains![?]

    DVD-A don't get any BM period.

    The Sherwood Newcastle R-963 is the latest "offender" if the reporting of S&V is true[meaning the sample wasn't a fluke]

    It's analog 6ch input does have BM but get this:If you select the 5 channels small they will receive a highpass filtering @80hz but that bass not getting directed to the Sub!!!!!!

    Sub only gets what's on the LFE channel and you essentially loose the bass content of the 5 main channels if you select 'em small!

    What is the logic behind these implementations of "BM" is beyond me.

    Jeff from Sherwood hopefully responds though.
     
  2. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Lewis- I keep hoping that version 2.0 of all of these products get it right... (sigh)
    And Sherwood has a new pre/pro coming. I wonder if Sherwood will get it "right" then! [​IMG]
     
  3. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    3,975
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The curse of lousy bass management. Its enough to make you go back to analog and use your own crossover between your pre-amp and amp.
     
  4. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Or buy an ICBM.... (ducks...)
     
  5. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  6. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You still have time alignment problems with the ICBM though. [​IMG] At least Outlaw is trying.
     
  7. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    True,True!
     
  8. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm pretty sure that the 1066 has bass management on the 5.1 analog input too. But more than likely it's digital.
     
  9. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Kevin,

    Doesn't the 1066 run the 5.1 analog input through another ADC-to-DAC cycle to get the bass management?
     
  10. Jeff Kohn

    Jeff Kohn Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe the Rotel is like the Outlaw, in that an ADC-to-DAC cycle is used to get the low bass to the sub, but the mains get the original unaltered analog signal. To me, this is also flawed, because if you have fairly capable mains you're going to be getting double bass. Maybe not quite as bad as getting no bass at all, but definitely flawed IMHO. If I have mains that are capable down into the low 30's, I would rather just leave the sub out altogether for music than have the bass from the 30's up to the sub's x-over doubled. And getting up to manually turn the sub off is not a valid workaround, IMHO.
     
  11. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    TANSTAAFL guys, TANSTAAFL!

    (T)here (A)in't (N)o (S)uch (T)hing (A)s A (F)ree (L)unch.

    THe Denon 3800 and 9000 players are supposed to get this right (even without connecting to the 5803 receiver).

    I've made the same comment Jeff had about doubling up mains, and if your mains (and surrounds) have the capability of hitting 40Hz or even 35Hz this can be problematic.

    Regards,
     
  12. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Outlaw 950 don't use a high pass filter on the 5 main channels?

    That would suck,that would be the same as the Denon 4800 DVD-A player!

    Am I reading you right Jeff?
     
  13. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jeff- I got a call from Tim at Rotel concerning other questions I had about the 1066. I got the distinct impression that:

    The analog 2 channel bypass was only "active" if you ran the mains full range ("no" subwoofer, or "max" selected), but as soon as you crossed over, you got digital for *both* the high passed signal to the mains and the low passed signal to the sub.

    He didn't know for sure (as said he was going to get back to me, but never did).
     
  14. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Are we sure that the aforementioned products do digital bass management? There's really little reason to do bass management in the digital domain. True it is cheaper to implement than analog bass management, but analog works well for this type of circuit and will accomodate advanced users MUCH better than digital. And for the most part only advanced users are going to actually use the 5.1 ins. I believe that the bass management on my Sherwood Newcastle AV-P9080 is 100% analog and works on the 5.1 ins. (I only use it ont he rears though for time alignment on DD sources - an ICBM does the fronts at different frequencies for me).
     
  15. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Philip- I would be willing to bet [​IMG] that anytime any product gives you a software configurable *choice* of crossover frequency, that that is digital.
    Knobs on the front (ICBM, Rane PE-17, Symmetrix 551)? Or a switch on the back for 1 freq (950)? That's analog.
    Much much harder and more expensive to design good analog circuits vs good digital ("good" as in doing what they are supposed to, not necessarily the same as the resulting performance).
     

Share This Page