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"Angel" season two is widescreen, not full-frame as previously announced (2 Viewers)

Mark Zimmer

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The 4:3 simulated screenshots in that link look awfully cramped. I think to the extent I have any preferences between the two the widescreen would win every time. Of course, a 4:3 set could be made that wasn't cramped by used territory outside the black bars, but then that wouldn't be OAR either, would it?
 

Scott_F_S

Second Unit
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Out of curiousity, is anyone going to boycott this set? (I'm not)
I wouldn't boycott it, I just wouldn't be happy about it if it does turn out to be 16:9. I'm holding out hope that the official specs that are out there are indeed correct, that it will be 4:3.

I know S3 on should be 16:9, and I look forward to that. But I would take the misframed S2 so I wouldn't have a big hole in my collection when all is said and done.
 

Dave F

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I don't get why there's all this animosity toward Angel Season 2 being in WS(which it DOES look fine in, BTW) when other shows like CSI, The Dead Zone, Alias, 24, and Smallville are all let off the hook when they're released on DVD in 16:9.
Well, shows like Alias have 2 OAR's - the 4:3 framing and the HDTV 16:9 framing. Whereas with Angel, we have staff stating that it was framed for 4:3, and it was also originally broadcast in 4:3.

Also, it contrasts with the way that Buffy season 4 was handled.

-Dave
 

Robert Ringwald

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That means it's filmed with 16:9 cameras, but they usually cram most of the action into the 4:3 frame.

ALIAS is going to be 16:9, which appears to be OAR, I was under the assumption that it looked very good 16:9, seeing how (in my opinion) lots of 4:3 shots looked cramped.
 

Jason Quillen

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Out of curiosity, is anyone going to boycott this set? (I'm not)
I can't figure out why anyone logically would. We're all buying the set because we like the show, right? Not becuase we like seeing things in 4:3? If you like the show, boycotting is only going to deprive you of seeing 22 episodes of a show you like.

JQ
 

Geoff_D

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After reading this thread (and posting earlier) I thought I'd dig out my S2 set and watch a few eps again. While the 16:9 framing may not be the intended ratio, there are one too many "happy accidents", as Tim Minear calls them, where the extra space is actually used. The amount of shots with dead space far outweighs those that actually use it, and can still be distracting (as can the framing errors, the effects shots in 4:3 etc), but even then there is a certain cinematic quality to the mis en scene of Angel that really fills the frame - unlike the more constrained sets of Buffy.

Having watched a heck of a lot of Buffy in both 4:3 and 16:9 I can say that there are virtually no "happy accidents" with the 16:9 presentation of Buffy. Everything is centred in the 4:3 frame, with the extra exposed shoulders being about as exciting as the 16:9 versions get. But Angel's characters tend to drift in and out of the 4:3 area quite regularly during S2, which led to many over here assuming that we had watched a "cropped" broadcast version (it wasn't broadcast in 16:9), hence the demand for the S2 dvds in 16:9.

Don't get me wrong, I still feel like I'm betraying the word o' Joss when I watch Angel S2 in widescreen. But for the reasons above (and the fact it's only one season of erroneous 16:9 protected Angel on dvd, not four seasons as with Buffy on R2/R4 dvd) I can live with it. As I'm sure many of you will. :D
 

Ken_McAlinden

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I don't get why there's all this animosity toward Angel Season 2 being in WS(which it DOES look fine in, BTW) when other shows like CSI, The Dead Zone, Alias, 24, and Smallville are all let off the hook when they're released on DVD in 16:9.
First, I haven't seen or heard anything that remotely constitutes animosity. Secondly, I and others have previously expressed concern about other shows in the same manner. My least favorite example of this has been the first two seasons of the Sopranos which look much better in 4:3 than in 16:9.

If the creators were satisfied with the loosey goosey 16:9 framing of Angel S2, why do you suppose they moved to dedicated 16:9 framings for seasons three and beyond?

Regards,
 

Adam Tyner

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Got bored and decided to compare the intros between the first two seasons. The colors are really off from these very quick 'n dirty captures, but...




I seem to remember there being some very mild discussion as to whether or not season one was shot in widescreen, and I guess this answers that...
 

Richard Paul

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I want to ask a simple but important question that will show the problem with several current AR arguments. Can you compose video in more than one AR?

I personally don't see how it's possible since many on this forum have argued that if it's not OAR than it's MAR. If you say that it's possible to compose for more than one AR than you are also saying that movies can have a OAR of both 2.35 and 1.33 with neither being a MAR.

Jeff, if Alias AR is 16:9 than aren't they broadcasting a MARed version for the 98% of viewers watching it on 4:3 TV's. I think it far more probable that almost all HDTV programs are being composed for 4:3 since that's the AR most people will watch it in. If the AR of a show is truly composed for 16:9 it would also be shown that way on analog broadcasts as well. The only current prime time shows that are in 16:9 on both digital and analog broadcasts are ER and Angel.
 

Jeff Kleist

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The Alias people have stated before they prefer the wide version. I have no idea as to the composition. Idon't have a URL handy as I do not have to track utterances as commandments on that show :) Same goes for 24

I seem to remember there being some very mild discussion as to whether or not season one was shot in widescreen, and I guess this answers that...
No, that just means they went in and did a 16:9 extraction for that part. The same thing happened for Buffy season 3, hell season _2_.
 

Adam Tyner

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No, that just means they went in and did a 16:9 extraction for that part. The same thing happened for Buffy season 3, hell season _2_.
Why "No"? If you can do a 16x9 extraction -- where the 16x9 version is wider than the 4x3 version -- then obviously that would have to mean that it's shot 16x9...?
 

Jeff Kleist

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No, that means that like Buffy season 2, it was shot the same way they're shooting today, on Super35, shooting the 16:9 area and doing a 4:3 extraction.

Angel S1 was shown 4:3 worldwide. No 16:9 masters of the episodes exist according to Fox and ME. Remember, just like with 1.85:1 films-"Just because it's there doesn't mean it's meant to be seen"
 

MatthewLouwrens

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that just means they went in and did a 16:9 extraction for that part. The same thing happened for Buffy season 3, hell season _2_.
I always thought Angel season 1 and 2 were both filmed in 16:9 and then reduced to 4:3. Certainly Buffy season 4, which was filmed at the same time as Angel season 1, changed to widescreen in season 4, so I always assumed that it made sense that Angel was in widescreen from season 1.

And that 16:9 image from season 1 does NOT look like an extraction from the 4:3 image, as there is a hang of a lot of picture information in the larger image that wasn't in the smaller.

Now, did Angel season 3 air in widescreen in the US? Because in NZ, season 3 is currently airing in 4:3.
 

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