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"Angel" season two is widescreen, not full-frame as previously announced (1 Viewer)

Scott_F_S

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Why are people complaining about Angel in 16:9? It was shot that way, and aired in widescreen as well.
It wasn't aired in widescreen. I'm disappointed because I believe the OAR on S2 was 4:3, and I'm not looking forward to seeing a season full of dead space on each side of the screen. But I can live with it in this case since widescreen is what the creator really did want to do with it.

But I'll be really torqued off if all of a sudden the rest of the Buffy seasons start showing up this way.
 

Richard Paul

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Joss want's Buffy to be shown in 4:3, but he always thought that Angel should be in 16:9 since it was more cinematic.

When you look at most HD prime time shows what OAR are they composited for? They may be shown in 16:9 for HD broadcasts, but most are truly composited for 4:3. The only shows that are composited for a 16:9 ratio are the ones that are letterboxed on NTSC broadcasts. This means that over 95% of the HDTV broadcasts are really composited for 4:3 TV's. When it comes to OAR some leniency with TV shows is necessary as we change from NTSC to ATSC. Though they don't show Angel in HD, I believe that in the future it could be shown at 720p.
 

Simon Massey

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I also believed Angel Season 2 was 4:3 and I am sure I have read comments from Joss Whedon et al that Season 3 was the first season to be composed with widescreen in mind (and if you have watched season 3 in 4:3 this is pretty obvious.)

Perhaps there will be an insert from Joss Whedon in the set about the aspect ratio, similar to the Buffy Season 4 set.
 

Richard Paul

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[rant]Just to defend the decision to release Angel season 2 in widescreen is the fact that over 95% of HD broadcasts are really composited for 4:3. I won't deny that Angel season 2 was composited for 4:3, but can anyone deny the fact that most High Definition broadcasts are composited in a 4:3 ratio? I find it odd that people get worked up over this and then watch High Definition broadcasts in MAR (please note this does not apply to everyone). Also I predict that when Blu-ray/HD-DVD becomes big in the U.S. you will see widescreen season box sets of Buffy for seasons 4-7.[/rant]

Staying somewhat on topic could Angel seasons 2-? be released in the future in 720p or would that be too detailed?
 

Michael Reuben

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could Angel seasons 2-? be released in the future in 720p or would that be too detailed?
AFAIK, there's currently no 720p format for general consumer use. So it's hard to imagine how anything could be "released . . . in 720p".

BTW, you keep using the term "composited". I believe you mean "composed", which is the usual verb applied to the arrangement of elements in a film frame. The dictionary definition of "composite" doesn't even include a listing as a verb, although I suspect that will change, since the term is often applied to aspects of CGI work.

M.
 

Adam Tyner

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Tim Minear on the aspect ratio issue:

"Season two was not shot to be presented in anything but 4:3. It's true that the British version is 16:9, and I'll even admit that I sort of enjoy watching it that way -- in the shots where it works (and it's only happy chance that it does,) it work real well. But it's wrong I tell ya! Wrong!"

"This happens quite a lot on the season two 16:9 DVDs. Seasons one and two were made before we started framing the show for the 16:9. We shot full frame and intended the episodes to be viewed that way. And that's that."
He goes on to mention a specific framing issue in the episode "Darla" where "we pop high and wide and there's a big ol' light stand and light in the frame".
 

Carlo_M

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Well Joss seems to get his way with these DVD releases (his explanatory note in Buffy S4 re: no widescreen seems to show his influence). If Angel S2 is being released in 16:9 I would guess (until we're given definitive proof otherwise) that this is Joss's intended AR. Until I hear otherwise I'm not getting worked up over this.

Oh, and owning a 16:9 will also assure I keep my mouth shut. :D
 

Adam Tyner

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To be honest, and I know I risk getting dragged out of here on a rope for saying this...but in the seven episodes I watched, I thought the series worked well in 16x9. Not necessarily better than 4x3 (though actually, I think some of the Pylea episodes take excellent advantage of the wider frame), but the space...especially after factoring in overscan...isn't nearly as extreme as what the screenshots I posted suggest, at least on my display. I kept an eye out for any large errors like light stands or grips on-frame, and nothing grabbed my attention.
 

Robert Ringwald

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He's talking about ANGEL. Buffy season 5 was meant for 4:3, and I just can't imagine it looking that good 16:9. Only shots heavy on action would really work better.
 

Adam Tyner

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I've posted more screenshots and elaborated on my thoughts about the widescreen presentation in this review.

(This isn't meant to be a shameless plug, but if a moderator considers a link to my own review to be inappropriate, feel free to remove this post.)
 

Jeff Kleist

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I'm back :)

I am shocked that it's wide, especially when it was solicited 4:3 and Minear's comments

The only thing I can think of is that Greenwalt (the big advocate behind 16:9 Angel) begged and Joss caved
 

Carlo_M

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I wonder then, given Minear's comments, if they are going to crop or digitally remove that one scene Minear mentioned about a light fixture--and any other unwanted items in frame?
 

Richard Paul

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Michael thanks for pointing out that grammatical error. You are though incorrect in stating there's no 720p consumer format since D-Theater can play back 720p tapes. The first, and to my knowledge only, D-Theater tape at 720p is Digital Video Essentials.

Regarding my question on 720p I restate it as whether anyone thinks that Angel could be shown at 720p on some future optical disc format or would the video be so detailed you would see things like makeup, sets, low quality CGI?
 

Michael Reuben

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You are though incorrect in stating there's no 720p consumer format since D-Theater can play back 720p tapes.
I said "for general consumer use". In my book, that leaves out D-Theater. And the point is moot anyway, since no one has even suggested that Angel or any other TV show is likely to be available on D-Theater in the foreseeable future.

M.
 

Jeff Kleist

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Richard, if they released Angel in HD (and I don't believe they mastered HD till S3) it would be 1080i

720p is only used for video games, and no one is going to support it. Gotta wait for 1080p
 
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IGN Interview about Buffy Season 4 :

IGN: Anything else you want to say about DVDs? Or Buffy?

Joss Whedon: About Buffy? I'm so tired! About DVDs? They're so cool! And I think this season is the one that comes with my explanation as to why [the Buffy DVDs] are not letterboxed. Angel obviously is and Firefly will be, because...they were! Actually, Firefly wasn't onscreen, but we knew at that point that we were shooting for DVD, so we framed it like that, but we never did that with Buffy. And a lot of people were like, "Dude! It's not cinematic!" And I'm like, "It's not cinema!" It was made for old-school TV, and that's the way it's gonna stay.
 

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