Andy Griffith Season 3 --- August 16, 2005 (1 Viewer)

[Jay_B!]

it should depend on price. I know people who wouldn't buy MTM season 1 because of the cut episode, but for the love of god, when it was on sale for $14.44 at Wal-Mart, why pass it up when you're getting 23 complete episodes (which come to 62 cents an episode if you don't wanna count the Xmas show) that you aren't going to find from tape traders.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

I'm always more sympethetic on this when it comes to music replacements.

Why must we always assume that it was just a greedy studio not wanting to pay a fee? Especially if that studio has a good track record of securing rights?

I mean Sony has a history of doing this, Paramount has a good track record, so why should they be labeled greedy when there is no documented evidence to suggest that they were?

Interesting that people want documented evidence that the artists were greedy, but don't care that there's no such evidence that the studio was greedy?

Paramount has a good track record, everything else is uncut and they went to great lengths to make it that way or so it would seem, and so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[george kaplan]

You're entitled to your opinion, but where do you draw the line? One episode? Two? Three? All but one? Let the studios put out one cut episode and if the sales are good, they'll save more money next time and cut more. Pretty soon you've got The Cosby Show, every friggin' episode cut. If sales of season 3 Andy Griffith don't suffer from the one cut episode, I'll bet you that there's more than one cut when season 4 comes around. If you want to contribute to that, go ahead, but I'm not going to.

 

[Jay_B!]

well, your logic does make sense the way you say it. It's not because you can't deal with one edited episode but that you feel if you support it, they're going to make it worse next set around.

 

[ChadP2k]

Guys I would hold the boat on this one until everyone has seen the set in person.

The person who wrote that review was only SPECULATING that a song was missing because of the length... that's exactly the right length for a syndicated version.

Paramount has made every effort in the past to put out COMPLETE copies of TAGS (evening giving us Sponsor spots), so I find it hard to believe this was intentional. I've been a longtime TAGS fan and as I mentioned in this thread or an earlier one I have been told in the past by people in a position to know that there were issues with locating complete copies of some episodes, and that a few simply could not be found period at that time.

I'm willing to bet no music on TAGS would warrant a rights confrontation, especially since the song was being performed as part of the show and not a recording being put into the soundtrack like most modern shows.

My guess is the original film copy of this episode was lost or had deteriorated and all they could provide was the edited syndication version.

 

[Scott Kimball]

If a show streets for $30 a set, but the studio has to cut a song, they are called greedy. If they license the song and charge $50, they are called greedy. It's a no-win scenario.

People are awful quick with the name-calling, without knowing the facts. One fact that isn't known is whether the edits have anything to do with music. Yet, without the facts in hand, people criticize.

 

[David Von Pein]

IMHO, Paramount Home Video has been nothing but a class act all the way with regard to the handling of its Andy Griffith complete-series sets on DVD -- to the point of even placing a disclaimer on the Paramount website re. potential "edited" content in some S.3 episodes, plus the very same disclaimer being placed on the packaging of the boxed set itself. I applaud that up-front approach.

I, as a big "Andy" fan, am certainly not going to let a 2-and-a-half-minute edit in one of 32 episodes prevent me from collecting one of the best seasons of the whole eight-year "TAGS" run.

I can only hope (and pray) that if any song has been eliminated from Season 3, it's NOT "Slimy River Bottom" -- 'cause that one's not only "purty" -- but it makes me cry to boot (as it does Charlene).

 

[Scott Kimball]

For what it's worth, it looks to me like a syndication print. The opening titles are obviously of a different quality than what is seen in the other episodes.

"Slimy River Bottom" is in the episode, as well as a couple of other songs.

Now, it's been awhile... isn't there a "Darlings" episode where they all get together at the Taylor home and play a song at the end? If it is this episode, the song isn't there... but if I recall, that's in a later episode.

-Scott

 

[george kaplan]

That's your perogative. I as a big "Andy" fan, am not going to compromise my principles, and buy the kerosene pickle equivalent of one of the best seasons if it turns out to be edited.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

To each their own. It is highly unreasonable for studios to have to spell out why they make their decisions. It is as likely that there is no useable master for the full length version (especially if it has gone to public domain), and Paramount used the best they could find. They were up front about the issue, and let buyers know well in advance that there were edits.

There has obviously bee a lot of care in preparing this release, and so far this set looks great. I certainly wouldn't want to miss it over 2 minutes that I wouldn't even notice were missing unless I was clocking every episode.

 

[ChadP2k]

Here is the quote (and an irresponsible one I might add, if you don't know don't speculate) from the review that started all this mess...



I ust checked this episode on the Public Domain DVD put out by the Sterling Group (their two volumes seem to be the "best" of the TAGS PD releases) and on those discs nearly all of the episodes are 23-25 minutes in length EXCEPT for the Darlings episode, which times in at just over 22 minutes.

This is the PERFECT length for a syndicated episode, which says to me as I have stated all along that it is simply an elements issue.

This isn't the episode that ends with the Darlings playing a song at the Taylor house... this one should end with Doug & Charlene's wedding.

 

[DanMel]

With many of 80's shows being edited on every single episode, it will not bother me in the least that they could not get one episode complete. Especially with the care and detail put forth in the super high quality of the transfers that put the TV versions to shame. With other high quality releases such as Hogan's Heroes that will even include bonus material for season 2, Paramount is my number one company for all my favorite shows.

 

[David Von Pein]

Then you're more-than-likely always going to be lacking TAGS S.3 in your DVD collection. Always.

That, of course, is your prerogative. But it's definitely akin to the "baby/bathwater" analogy IMO. To deprive yourself of 99 good things to save the agony of the 1 bad one is, in my view, just ... well, frankly ... silly.

The MTM Season 1 set gets better with each viewing of it (even without the 20-second Christmas show edit). I'm going to guess that TAGS-S.3 will offer up a similar self-evaluation from this writer; because it's a really, really good season......

"Man In A Hurry" ... "The Mayberry Band" ... "The Bed Jacket" ... "Convicts-At-Large" ("Al, you're a doll!" ) ... "Barney's First Car" ... "Andy Discovers America" (and discovers Helen Crump for the first time) ... "Lawman Barney" ... "Andy & Opie, Bachelors" ... "The Big House". ... and many more great shows.

This third season is possibly the best year of the whole series. I can live with one (or even two) small edits to get all these shows in pristine Paramount-like PQ and (virtually) unedited.

As Barney said in "The Cow Thief" from Season 3 -- "There's no sense making a big moulage out of it."

 

[Jaime_Weinman]

Look, folks, if george kaplan doesn't want to buy releases with edited episodes, that's his business, his principles, and affects nobody except himself. So I don't see the point of arguing with his decision. He's not saying we should refuse to buy TAGS season 3; he's just saying he refuses to buy it.

Re the episode: the review says that that's one of the few episodes on the set that doesn't have the original commercial, which again suggests that the original broadcast version is lost or damaged.

 

[george kaplan]

As far as MTM season 1 goes, that is clearly a cut that was unnecessary and cheap, and yes, if I never get to see those episodes again, oh well. I have thousands upon thousands upon tens of thousands of hours of other things to watch.

In regard to Andy season 3, it may very well be that this is a one-time shot, and that the uncut episode is, for whatever reason, no longer in existence. If that turns out to be the case, I will buy season 3. However, I'm like the folks of Mayberry in the episode with the guy in a hurry. I'm not in a hurry. I haven't even gotten around to watching season 1 yet, so I can certainly wait to buy season 3 until season 4 is released. If that comes out with no cuts, then obviously the cuts in season 3 were benign. On the other hand, if it has even more cuts, then that will just validate my concerns that these cuts are unnecessary. In either case, I can patiently wait for the evidence of season 4.

At the moment all we have is a generic legalistic CYA disclaimer that doesn't instill confidence in me. On the other hand, if Martin Blythe (who used to post here), would come in and assure us that the cuts were unavoidable, and not a sign of things to come on future seasons, I'd take his word and buy it now.

 

[Jeff Reis]

FWIW, I just checked my Brentwood PD set of these episodes and "The Darlings Are Coming" runs 25:30.

This alone won't keep me from buying the S3 set but I'll be really upset if we discover more cuts after checking out the set thoroughly.

 

[Scott Kimball]

Martin Blythe no longer holds a position at Paramount. He left about a year ago to work as a consultant.

From all appearances, this was not a music cut. The episode's video is of lesser quality than the other episodes. This, along with the runtime, leads one to reason that the original master was unavailable and the syndication version was used.

Paramount has not given me a reason to be as pessimistic as you, George - but I don't argue the point that you have a perfectly valid option to wait and see what the future holds.

At any rate, I'll have my review of the set posted in a few days.

-Scott

 

[David Von Pein]

What makes you say this? Do you know for a fact how many $$$ it would have cost Fox to obtain the song rights for DVD inclusion?

Your definition of being "cheap" might not be quite the same as Fox's. If some copyright-holder wanted an exorbitant amount of money for a 20-second music clip, I think I'd pass too. Heck, who knows, if Fox had purchased those song rights too, that MTM-1 set might have ended up with a $65 take-home price tag. The initial price was high enough as it was.

 

[Jay_B!]

exactly, it was that $49.99 price tag why it took nearly 3 years to get season 2. Had Fox marked it even higher to accomidate usage of "White Christmas", sales would've been even lower and season 2 would've never happened.

 

[george kaplan]

Well for myself, I'd gladly pay $65 for MTM season 1 completely uncut. I won't pay 2 cents for it as is.

Since the studios haven't told us how much the music rights would have cost, we have to make assumptions. You guys are willing to assume that the studio did the right thing. As a person who's seen first hand how business make decisions, I'm unwilling to make that assumption.

All we know for sure, without assumptions, is that the episode, is indeed, cut. I put the onus on the studio to show me that this decision wasn't based on maximizing profit. If you guys wish to assume otherwise, go ahead.