Barry, I'm curious, from what element did you restore Night of the Living Dead, an old scratched print (typical of most non-Elite DVD's) or a fairly clean one? The reason I ask is that I would like to see a before & after comparison of your restoration on the DVD or indeed a short featurette regarding your colorization prosess. Will there be something of this nature?
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And you thought (hoped) colorization was dead.... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Steve Phillips
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Barry_S
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Kevin,
We are well connected with the community of 35mm collectors and have access to some of the better prints if they exist at all.
We have discussed doing a special feature within one of our DVDs which shows the difference between the original and the restored version. I'm in favor of it. There is a great deal of garbage out there and there are many Public Domain distributors that smack fancy DVD covers on inferior black and white prints. However we are making every effort to put out only quality B&W and colorized product.
We are well connected with the community of 35mm collectors and have access to some of the better prints if they exist at all.
We have discussed doing a special feature within one of our DVDs which shows the difference between the original and the restored version. I'm in favor of it. There is a great deal of garbage out there and there are many Public Domain distributors that smack fancy DVD covers on inferior black and white prints. However we are making every effort to put out only quality B&W and colorized product.
Thank you Barry, I think we all appreciate your company's apparent dedication to offer everyone a quality product and I am really glad that you are taking on these questions with very open minded tact.
Good job, I wish more studios could come onto this forum without fear of getting their respective asses chewed out....what can I say, we loves dem films....a lot.
Good job, I wish more studios could come onto this forum without fear of getting their respective asses chewed out....what can I say, we loves dem films....a lot.
Dan Rudolph
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Would your process be of any use on kinetiscopes? I ask as there are numerous episodes of odl (color) TV series where certain episodes only exist in kinetiscope because something happened to the master tape. Or are these too low of quality to work with usually?
Barry_S
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Dan,
I've worked with kine in the past. They generally don't hold up well and are too soft. However, I've done some quad tape that look very good. In particular, some old Judy Garland concerts many years ago that turned out fine considering the source.
I've worked with kine in the past. They generally don't hold up well and are too soft. However, I've done some quad tape that look very good. In particular, some old Judy Garland concerts many years ago that turned out fine considering the source.
I just picked up a copy of the Reefer Madness: Special Addiction. I popped it into my player and got my reef on.
First Views:
Mike Nelson is pretty damn funny. It's like watching MST3K without the silouttes. I can't wait to sit through his entire commentary.
The original B&W version is at the bottom the Special Features menu (the only way to access it). The image is a tad soft and the blacks are a bit darker that I would expect (but this might be because I'm testing it out at work and not on my system at home). The image seems to "wobble" at times and there is the occasional fleck or bit of dirt throughout but nothing horrible or distracting. Ironically, the flecks show through more in the colorized version.
For the most part, it's a solid image throughout (Again, I'm not watching this on my system. I'm just scanning through for an inital overview). It also has Chapter Stops (Since it was in the Bonus Section, I was afraid it would run through without Chapters). This is probably the best this film will ever look and 10 times better than a Public Domain transfer.
The original audio is very well done with little hiss (though a bit tinny at times). Overall, the dialogue is very clear.
Now for the Colorized Version....
The colorization is SO phoney-looking. But reading from the Off Color site "We did a major video restoration and then colorized the film in an over-the-top comic book style", I'm guessing this is what they were attempting it to look like.
Honestly, it looks no better than the colorization from the early 80s. Jarring and plain ugly. The only reason I'd watch it again would be because the commentaries are only available when watching the colorized version.
I don't have a 5.1 system at my office so I haven't listened to the DTS or Dolby digital tracks yet. I also haven't listened to the Legend Films commentary either. I'm very interested in what they have to say about the work they did.
I scanned through Grandpa's Marijuana Handbook and that Grandpa character is pretty kooky. Oh, and I love the song playing during the menus.
Overall, I'm happy I picked it up for the original B&W transfer and the Mike Nelson commentary. Especially the Nelson commentary! It's definately worth it!
I wish Legend Films luck with their future releases. Tho I won't pick up Night of the Living Dead nor Carnival of Souls (I own the Elite version of one and the Criterion of the other), I'm curious as to what their other releases will be.
Andrew
First Views:
Mike Nelson is pretty damn funny. It's like watching MST3K without the silouttes. I can't wait to sit through his entire commentary.
The original B&W version is at the bottom the Special Features menu (the only way to access it). The image is a tad soft and the blacks are a bit darker that I would expect (but this might be because I'm testing it out at work and not on my system at home). The image seems to "wobble" at times and there is the occasional fleck or bit of dirt throughout but nothing horrible or distracting. Ironically, the flecks show through more in the colorized version.
For the most part, it's a solid image throughout (Again, I'm not watching this on my system. I'm just scanning through for an inital overview). It also has Chapter Stops (Since it was in the Bonus Section, I was afraid it would run through without Chapters). This is probably the best this film will ever look and 10 times better than a Public Domain transfer.
The original audio is very well done with little hiss (though a bit tinny at times). Overall, the dialogue is very clear.
Now for the Colorized Version....
The colorization is SO phoney-looking. But reading from the Off Color site "We did a major video restoration and then colorized the film in an over-the-top comic book style", I'm guessing this is what they were attempting it to look like.
Honestly, it looks no better than the colorization from the early 80s. Jarring and plain ugly. The only reason I'd watch it again would be because the commentaries are only available when watching the colorized version.
I don't have a 5.1 system at my office so I haven't listened to the DTS or Dolby digital tracks yet. I also haven't listened to the Legend Films commentary either. I'm very interested in what they have to say about the work they did.
I scanned through Grandpa's Marijuana Handbook and that Grandpa character is pretty kooky. Oh, and I love the song playing during the menus.
Overall, I'm happy I picked it up for the original B&W transfer and the Mike Nelson commentary. Especially the Nelson commentary! It's definately worth it!
I wish Legend Films luck with their future releases. Tho I won't pick up Night of the Living Dead nor Carnival of Souls (I own the Elite version of one and the Criterion of the other), I'm curious as to what their other releases will be.
Andrew
Barry_S
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Hi Andrew,
You must be well connected :frowning: The DVD will not be released until 4-20.
Yes, the colorization is not photo-real nor did we want to create that look. On the colorized version we took creative liberties. Since the movie is one huge cliche, we felt that an over the top comic book style was appropriate and allowed us to do some wacky things. In fact we are taking frames from the movie and creating a comic book... talk bubbles and all. You'll notice that the color makes that work.
The new colorization process provides complete latitude in color style. Our other features will look quite different but each one, creatively appropriate for the particular film.
Regarding the film quality, you're right - in fact, this is the best print available anywhere. While maintaining the vintage look, we did extensive restoration as we do in all our features. I'm surprised you found any dust at all... are you sure those dust specks didn't spell out subliminal messages?
This DVD is intended to be fun and funny... not an artistic restoration... and I believe we succeeded. So far we've only had positives from the people who have viewed the DVD (FOX, retailers, etc.). By the Way, if you liked Mike Nelson commentary on Reefer Madness, you'll love him doing commentary on Carnival of Souls and Night of the Living Dead.
You must be well connected :frowning: The DVD will not be released until 4-20.
Yes, the colorization is not photo-real nor did we want to create that look. On the colorized version we took creative liberties. Since the movie is one huge cliche, we felt that an over the top comic book style was appropriate and allowed us to do some wacky things. In fact we are taking frames from the movie and creating a comic book... talk bubbles and all. You'll notice that the color makes that work.
The new colorization process provides complete latitude in color style. Our other features will look quite different but each one, creatively appropriate for the particular film.
Regarding the film quality, you're right - in fact, this is the best print available anywhere. While maintaining the vintage look, we did extensive restoration as we do in all our features. I'm surprised you found any dust at all... are you sure those dust specks didn't spell out subliminal messages?
This DVD is intended to be fun and funny... not an artistic restoration... and I believe we succeeded. So far we've only had positives from the people who have viewed the DVD (FOX, retailers, etc.). By the Way, if you liked Mike Nelson commentary on Reefer Madness, you'll love him doing commentary on Carnival of Souls and Night of the Living Dead.
Barry_S
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Reefer Update: Not Spam...
Reefer Madness Taking Museum Of Photographic Arts On April 20
SAN DIEGO — San Diego film fans will be going to pot on April 20 — with a colorful case of Reefer Madness.
The San Diego Museum of Photographic Arts in Balboa Park will be the setting for the world color premiere of Reefer Madness, a classic 1938 anti-pot propaganda film, that has demonstrated the evils of marijuana for generations of youths ever since.
Although the film was originally made in black and white, the San Diego-based Off-Color Films company is adding a new shade to the classic cult film by colorizing it for the first time in its 66-year history.
The colorization isn't just a paint job. Off Color Films executive Barry Sandrew — the man behind the Reefer premier — says color experts spent hours making the new hues especially appealing to the percentage of the population most likely to succumb to the dreaded scourge marijuana.
"In the new film, every person has their own shade of smoke," says Sandrew, who has been a major figure in film colorization and movie preservation. "That's to represent that each person's experience with the drug is different. Remarkably, the innocent high school kids never notice the smell of reefer as they are seduced by the evil pot pushers and are equally oblivious to the Technicolor smoke emanating from the joints.” "In addition, whenever two characters smoke together and fall into blissful THC sync, their separate shades of smoke blend with each other."
The Reefer Madness world premiere takes place April 20 — an unofficial holiday for pot smokers — at the world famous Museum of Photographic Arts in Balboa Park, a beautiful setting that Orson Welles used to represent Xanadu in his 1941 classic, Citizen Kane.
It's an amazing coincidence that MOPA film curator Scott Marks finds ironic. "You have a world premiere of a film that many experts consider as one of the worst of all time taking place at a location where they filmed one of the best. I think Orson Welles would appreciate the irony."
The Reefer Madness premiere takes place at 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. and will include some special features sure to light your fire, such as a hilarious commentary of the entire feature film by Mike Nelson of Mystery Science Theater 3000 and a short feature, Grandpa's Marijuana Handbook, starring 72-year-old pot smoker Evan Keliher, who explains everything an oldster needs to know about marijuana.
Although the purpose of the new Reefer Madness is to prevent today's youths from suffering from the inevitable insanity caused by marijuana, Sandrew believes the film will be as effective at combating the dreaded scourge of marijuana "...as it has in the past."
The Museum of Photographic Arts is located at 1649 El Prado, San Diego, CA. For more information about the Reefer Madness premier, contact Stephanie Bush at (310) 701-0967
DVDs can be pre-ordered on Amazon.com or via www.legendfilms.net.
Reefer Madness Taking Museum Of Photographic Arts On April 20
SAN DIEGO — San Diego film fans will be going to pot on April 20 — with a colorful case of Reefer Madness.
The San Diego Museum of Photographic Arts in Balboa Park will be the setting for the world color premiere of Reefer Madness, a classic 1938 anti-pot propaganda film, that has demonstrated the evils of marijuana for generations of youths ever since.
Although the film was originally made in black and white, the San Diego-based Off-Color Films company is adding a new shade to the classic cult film by colorizing it for the first time in its 66-year history.
The colorization isn't just a paint job. Off Color Films executive Barry Sandrew — the man behind the Reefer premier — says color experts spent hours making the new hues especially appealing to the percentage of the population most likely to succumb to the dreaded scourge marijuana.
"In the new film, every person has their own shade of smoke," says Sandrew, who has been a major figure in film colorization and movie preservation. "That's to represent that each person's experience with the drug is different. Remarkably, the innocent high school kids never notice the smell of reefer as they are seduced by the evil pot pushers and are equally oblivious to the Technicolor smoke emanating from the joints.” "In addition, whenever two characters smoke together and fall into blissful THC sync, their separate shades of smoke blend with each other."
The Reefer Madness world premiere takes place April 20 — an unofficial holiday for pot smokers — at the world famous Museum of Photographic Arts in Balboa Park, a beautiful setting that Orson Welles used to represent Xanadu in his 1941 classic, Citizen Kane.
It's an amazing coincidence that MOPA film curator Scott Marks finds ironic. "You have a world premiere of a film that many experts consider as one of the worst of all time taking place at a location where they filmed one of the best. I think Orson Welles would appreciate the irony."
The Reefer Madness premiere takes place at 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. and will include some special features sure to light your fire, such as a hilarious commentary of the entire feature film by Mike Nelson of Mystery Science Theater 3000 and a short feature, Grandpa's Marijuana Handbook, starring 72-year-old pot smoker Evan Keliher, who explains everything an oldster needs to know about marijuana.
Although the purpose of the new Reefer Madness is to prevent today's youths from suffering from the inevitable insanity caused by marijuana, Sandrew believes the film will be as effective at combating the dreaded scourge of marijuana "...as it has in the past."
The Museum of Photographic Arts is located at 1649 El Prado, San Diego, CA. For more information about the Reefer Madness premier, contact Stephanie Bush at (310) 701-0967
DVDs can be pre-ordered on Amazon.com or via www.legendfilms.net.
Barry_S
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Steve Phillips
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I assume the upcoming Stooges disc will include both the original B/W and color versions as with the previous DVDs?
Columbia Tri-Star is also releasing two volumes of colorized Stooges shorts (not including the four PD shorts) this fall. Did you color those as well?
Those will be dual B/W and color also, BTW.
Columbia Tri-Star is also releasing two volumes of colorized Stooges shorts (not including the four PD shorts) this fall. Did you color those as well?
Those will be dual B/W and color also, BTW.
Barry_S
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It's using a variation of an older colorization technology and it does not include the entire former cast of Mystery Science Theater 3000 as the Legend Films release.
Hey Barry,
I've been looking for the BEST versions of the four PD Stooges shorts for quite awhile. All the versions I've seen are muddy and VHS quality (well, except for the "official" Columbia releases).
Now I see that Legend Films is gonna release them. Based on the restoration work you've done on Reefer Madness, I think I may have found the "best" versions available. Definately picking this release up in October (as long as the B&W originals are on it, of course).
Can't wait to see the MST3K crew intros!
Keep up the good work!
Andrew
I've been looking for the BEST versions of the four PD Stooges shorts for quite awhile. All the versions I've seen are muddy and VHS quality (well, except for the "official" Columbia releases).
Now I see that Legend Films is gonna release them. Based on the restoration work you've done on Reefer Madness, I think I may have found the "best" versions available. Definately picking this release up in October (as long as the B&W originals are on it, of course).
Can't wait to see the MST3K crew intros!
Keep up the good work!
Andrew
Barry_S
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Andrew - Here's the latest from Off Color Films and Mike Nelson -
http://www.offcolorfilms.com/cos.html
Enjoy!
http://www.offcolorfilms.com/cos.html
Enjoy!
Own it, in fact I made a mini-review about it (sorry if my remarks regarding the colorising process are less than kind) .
.
Barry_S
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Hey Kevin,
Thanks for the mini review. Keep in mind that all colorized movies are a creative interpretation of the feature film taking into considering both the genre and the mood of the film. Some critics expect each colorized film to look exactly alike and often expect each film to look like a newly shot element. Some expect the film to remain looking vintage (a correct expectation in most cases considering even the best source material) but the color should not stray from their criteria of "natural". When colorization takes creative license, that expectation isn't necessarily met and I hear some cry "bad colorization". The best example of that was our over the top treatment of Reefer Madness: Special Addiction. While you can't please everyone, the majority of online and print critics (those who "got it") were overwhelmingly supportive of our colorized treatment and restoration of Reefer.
The restored black and white version and the restored colorized versions of Carnival of Souls are two totally separate products and should be treated as such (i.e., neither is intended to replace the other). One is the original black and white classic with mono-audio and the other is a creative derivative work... a colorized interpretation of the classic.
The color design of Carnival of Souls was intended to enhance the surreal storyline and shock value scenes with appropriate color palettes. I believe it succeeded beautifully.
Again, thanks Kevin for purchasing the special release and taking the time to write the mini review. Love reading this board, both the pro AND the con.
Barry
Thanks for the mini review. Keep in mind that all colorized movies are a creative interpretation of the feature film taking into considering both the genre and the mood of the film. Some critics expect each colorized film to look exactly alike and often expect each film to look like a newly shot element. Some expect the film to remain looking vintage (a correct expectation in most cases considering even the best source material) but the color should not stray from their criteria of "natural". When colorization takes creative license, that expectation isn't necessarily met and I hear some cry "bad colorization". The best example of that was our over the top treatment of Reefer Madness: Special Addiction. While you can't please everyone, the majority of online and print critics (those who "got it") were overwhelmingly supportive of our colorized treatment and restoration of Reefer.
The restored black and white version and the restored colorized versions of Carnival of Souls are two totally separate products and should be treated as such (i.e., neither is intended to replace the other). One is the original black and white classic with mono-audio and the other is a creative derivative work... a colorized interpretation of the classic.
The color design of Carnival of Souls was intended to enhance the surreal storyline and shock value scenes with appropriate color palettes. I believe it succeeded beautifully.
Again, thanks Kevin for purchasing the special release and taking the time to write the mini review. Love reading this board, both the pro AND the con.
Barry
Ok, fair enough but I don't recall Off Color actually saying that the color palet for COS was going to be in the same "stylistic" manner as Reefer, in fact the packaging on RM actually stated so but on COS's packaging there is no such statement and in the film itself (apart from the red eyes and an oddly shaded sunset or two) there IMO seems to be no "outrageous" or "surreal" color palets at all, merely artificial...I am interested to see your attempts at a standard colorisation of a film so we can really see how your prosess has or hasn't improved over the standard unnatural "watercolor" palets of years past, because so far I haven't seen anything to prove the new prosess is any different at all except perhaps that the colors do not bleed as much when compared to the older technology.
I'll continue to purchase your product because it offers me something that I do want, Mike Nelson commentaries, but as far as the color prosess goes...well, I've never been behind the practice anyway but I've not been impressed so far.
Oh BTW,
I understand and appreciate the fact that you offer the B&W version along with the color version however I do find it odd that you only offer the original version in the special features section. What I mean is if you do indeed respect the original version then why bury it on a sub menu? My advice is to have a separate section on the main menu (I.E. View Color version / View Original B&W version) with chapter stop listings, audio choices and whatnot, this way you truly offer a more obvious choice for the average viewer who may not look at extras at all and might not otherwise be inclined to seek out the original B&W version.
Just some thoughts.
I understand and appreciate the fact that you offer the B&W version along with the color version however I do find it odd that you only offer the original version in the special features section. What I mean is if you do indeed respect the original version then why bury it on a sub menu? My advice is to have a separate section on the main menu (I.E. View Color version / View Original B&W version) with chapter stop listings, audio choices and whatnot, this way you truly offer a more obvious choice for the average viewer who may not look at extras at all and might not otherwise be inclined to seek out the original B&W version.
Just some thoughts.
Paul Hillenbrand
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Just viewed the 20th Century Fox / Legend Films "Beyond Christmas" DVD, and I have several questions regarding the movie.
Why is the "Colorized Version" on the DVD menu the only play "Feature" listed, while the original black & white version is only found under the "Special Features" heading?
You would only find this by chance if you happened to get curious enough to explore the links,however it is mentioned on the back of the keepcase.
With the Original B&W feature link, listed under the "Special Features" heading, is also a "Deleted Scenes" link, that if you play all the scenes, you find they are only in the colorized format, and because of them being colorized, I also wondered why they were not included in the colorized feature?
After doing some checking in my collection, I found that all the "Deleted Scenes" included are not “deleted” at all in the same movie with a different name, - "Beyond Tomorrow". I found the uncut "Beyond Tomorrow", on Marengo Films presents "A Classic Christmas" DVD Double Feature disc released on 10/16/2000, that also has the 1935 movie "Scrooge" on it.
So, was the 84 minute "Beyond Tomorrow" edited to 79 minutes so the movie could be called "Beyond Christmas"?
"Beyond Christmas" is definitely in much better shape than the version of "Beyond Tomorrow" I have with all the picture wear, and a lot of work must have gone into the restoration to make the movie look so good, but the way the original B&W feature is hidden on the same disc and all the deleted scenes colorized, makes it look like “Legend Films” is ashamed that the B&W version is there at all!
Paul
Why is the "Colorized Version" on the DVD menu the only play "Feature" listed, while the original black & white version is only found under the "Special Features" heading?
You would only find this by chance if you happened to get curious enough to explore the links,
however it is mentioned on the back of the keepcase. With the Original B&W feature link, listed under the "Special Features" heading, is also a "Deleted Scenes" link, that if you play all the scenes, you find they are only in the colorized format, and because of them being colorized, I also wondered why they were not included in the colorized feature?
After doing some checking in my collection, I found that all the "Deleted Scenes" included are not “deleted” at all in the same movie with a different name, - "Beyond Tomorrow". I found the uncut "Beyond Tomorrow", on Marengo Films presents "A Classic Christmas" DVD Double Feature disc released on 10/16/2000, that also has the 1935 movie "Scrooge" on it.
So, was the 84 minute "Beyond Tomorrow" edited to 79 minutes so the movie could be called "Beyond Christmas"?
"Beyond Christmas" is definitely in much better shape than the version of "Beyond Tomorrow" I have with all the picture wear, and a lot of work must have gone into the restoration to make the movie look so good, but the way the original B&W feature is hidden on the same disc and all the deleted scenes colorized, makes it look like “Legend Films” is ashamed that the B&W version is there at all!
Paul
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