Anamorphic WS (1 Viewer)

[JohnVB]

I've read the information about anamorphic wide screen in the basics area, and I wanted to check here to make sure I understand it correctly.
My understanding is that anamorphic is about 2 things:

1. better resolution - very few or no black bars in the encoded image, so more bits are used to carry the actual image.
2. correct aspect ratio displayed - on 4:3 and 16:9 TV's the image is displayed in the correct aspect ratio without using a 'zoom' mode.[/list=1]
   Is this right? If so, couldn't they make anamorphic full screen dvds? I know it's weird, but you'd get the right aspect ratio, and the black bars you get on the TV don't cause burn-in, while the gray one's the TV produces do. (I am dumbfounded why TV's will produce gray bars that can cause burn-in, instead of black ones).
   I'm wondering though, maybe with the way they make anamorphic dvds, this isn't possible, and you'd get black bars on your 4:3 TV too.
   FYI, the only full screen movie I have (LOTR) was given to me for free, and I'm thinking of selling that at a local shop that buys back DVDs for $13 a piece. So, I'm not advocating full screen. I'm just wondering.
   Cheers,
   - bones

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Well, you would. The 4:3 is windowboxed (given bars on the sides) inside a letterbox-- so on a 4:3 you'd get bars on all sides. Some discs which use this allow "pan and scan on the fly" allowing the player to zoom away the bars on all sides-- but at a sacrifice of resolution.

-V

 

[Adam Tyner]

Is this right? If so, couldn't they make anamorphic full screen dvds?

If you mean a 1.33:1-ish image windowboxed in an anamorphic widescreen 1.78:1 frame, then it's already being done -- Anchor Bay often goes this route with their full-frame supplements, for instance. The image is shown as windowboxed on 16x9 televisions and fills the entire frame on 4x3 sets. (For owners of 4x3 televisions with a 16x9 squeeze, such as myself, it's maddening.) Going that route requires a hit in resolution, and because of that, it generally seems to be frowned upon in this forum.

Edit -- whoops, beaten to the punch by Vince. Feel free to delete this message.

 

[Chris Moe]

Actually, black bars will cause burn in faster than gray. Really both can be dangerous- any fixed image with excessive contrast can cause uneven burn.

Actually this isn't entirely correct. Black bars dont give you any burn at all. Grey bars will give you burn. The problem with black bars is that you will get uneven burn (the image within the bars will burn the phospher while the black area won't) The point of grey bars is to have an even burn through out your phospher.

 

[Damin J Toell]

I'm wondering though, maybe with the way they make anamorphic dvds, this isn't possible, and you'd get black bars on your 4:3 TV too.

You could make the disc play such that it is forced to fill up a 4x3 screen, but it would simply be blowing up a lower-resolution image.

DJ

 

[Jack Briggs]

John:
Just ignore the word "anamorphic" for now, and understand that these are DVDs which simply have been encoded to output all their 480 lines of resolution into a 16:9 shape. And that no single TV screen, 4:3 or 16:9, can accommodate every film aspect ratio.
Finally, a fine point: Not all fullscreen releases are panned-and-scanned. Before 1952, all films were 4:3. And many since then have also been 4:3. So it's "okay" to watch those titles!
JB

 

[JohnVB]

Vince,

Interesting comment about the burn-in on the black bars. I would have thought that the black bars wouldn't cause burn-in, just like no burn-in occurs when my TV is off.

So, um is my understanding on anamorphic dvds correct?

- bones

 

[Michael Reuben]

correct aspect ratio displayed - on 4:3 and 16:9 TV's the image is displayed in the correct aspect ratio without using a 'zoom' mode.

Strictly speaking, this isn't a function of anamorphic enhancement. Correct AR has to do with how the disc has been created. It's entirely possible to have an anamorphic disc in the wrong AR. And there's no reason why a non-anamorphic disc can't be played back in the correct AR on any TV, assuming it was mastered on disc in the correct AR.

M.

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

John- see Chris Moe's post above. That was what i was trying to say- above when I said "any fixed image displayed on a set excessive contrast setting can cause uneven burn on the tubes."

While it is commonly referred to as "burn in"- really the issue is any uneven burning of the tube face. Excessive white will cause that area to burn faster, excessive black will cause it to not burn- so either fixed image can cause problems. Fixed black on a portion of the set while picture is being shown on other areas results in the black area going unused. So as the area with the picture wears down, the black area becomes "uneven" as thus shows a burn pattern from the bars.

Grey is the best bet for keeping burn even in the fixed are and the picture area.

-V

 

[JohnVB]

Wow, this is great. I'm glad I asked these questions.

And there's no reason why a non-anamorphic disc can't be played back in the correct AR on any TV, assuming it was mastered on disc in the correct AR.

Are there non-anamorphic DVDs that play with the correct AR on any TV? If so, what term is used to identify these DVDs? Isn't it assumed that anamorphic DVDs will have the correct AR? Are there anamorphic DVDs that don't have the correct AR by default on a 16:9 or 4:3 TV?

Hm, I suppose anamorphic DVDs would not have the right AR if we all started migrating to 2.35:1 ratio TVs.

- bones

 

[Michael Reuben]

Are there non-anamorphic DVDs that play with the correct AR on any TV?

Lots of them (too many, in fact). A recent example is Warner's The Ninth Configuration, a 2.35:1 film. A few older examples: True Lies, The Hunt for Red October, Clear and Present Danger, From Dusk Till Dawn, The Color Money -- the latter two being 1.85:1).

BTW, any material can be played back incorrectly on a 16:9 TV, if the display mode isn't properly selected.

M.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Just ignore the word "anamorphic" for now,

As Jack observes, no single TV screen will reproduce all aspect ratios without black bars.

Consider for the moment, traditional 4:3 TVs. Doing the math, a 4:3 TV has an aspect ratio of 1.33:1, which is the same as most traditional movies shot on 35mm. Therefore 4:3 TVs display most Standard Definition (SD) TV shows and most, older movies with no black bars. However any movie that has not been shot in the 1.33:1 aspect ratio and is show in its original aspect ratio (OAR) will have black (or gray) bars when shown on a 4:3 display. They will be horizontal bars. So too will some modern TV shows such as ER or The West Wing , which is now telecast for 16:9, wide screen TV displays.

These newer TV shows cited above fit perfectly to the new 16:9 TVs, as do most new HD telecasts. This means that these shows have no bars on the 16:9 TVs. Many new movies are shot in aspect ratios of about 1.85:1 and when they are shown on 16:9 TVs will have very small (and perhaps no) bars on 16:9 TVs. This is because a 16:9 TVs aspect ratio is 1.78:1, very close to 1.85:1, so the horizontal bars are very thin, and on many TVs nonexistent due to overscan. However older movies in the 1:33:1 aspect ratio and all traditional TV shows will now have vertical bars when shown on 16:9 TVs. And some movies are shot in an even higher aspect ratio such as 2.35:1. These movies will have horizontal bars, even on wide screen TVs: the bars will be much smaller than on a smaller TV.

All this is a long way of saying what Jack said in one phrase.

Anamorphic reproduction just makes the picture quality better for widescreen movies shown on all 16:9 TVs and some (those that can do the ‘squeeze’) 4:3 TVs. The bars, black or gray remain the same size.

Hope this helps.

 

[Patrick McCart]

Actually, anamorphic 1.33:1 won't gain or lose any resolution on a 4:3 TV...if it's encoded to be "centered" which basically means the black bars on the sides would be cropped without the use of a 16x9 TV.

The only problem...the sides take up space (not a lot), so it would be better on the bit budget to leave it 1.33:1.

It IS handy, however for discs (as stated before) like Se7en which has an anamorphic presentation with anamorphic supplements.

 

[JohnVB]

Lew,

I'm not worried about black bars. When I say the picture is presented in the right AR, I'm talking about the picture not appearing stretched or compressed (with or without bars).

For example, I have an older widescreeen VHS of Star Trek: Insurrection. When I view this on my HDTV, the image appears stretched even wider than it is meant, and I have to put the TV on 'Zoom' for it to appear correctly.

I also have 'The Princess Bride' DVD which is not anamorphic. When I view this in either fullscreen or widescreen, the image still appears stretched horizontally. Yet I cannot switch to 'Zoom' mode when playing back DVDs (I suspect this is due to using progressive scan). So I'm stuck viewing a "wider than normal" picture.

When I view The Matrix, which is anamorphic widescreen, then the aspect ratio looks right on my 16:9 TV.

So it would appear that anamorphic dvds often (always?) also show the correct aspect ratio on 16:9 TVs and from what I've read, it appears that the DVD player would also properly display this movie with the correct AR on a 4:3 TV.

Lots of them (too many, in fact). A recent example is Warner's The Ninth Configuration, a 2.35:1 film. A few older examples: True Lies, The Hunt for Red October, Clear and Present Danger, From Dusk Till Dawn, The Color Money -- the latter two being 1.85:1).

So, it appears The Princess Bride dvd does not show the correct AR on my setup, but that other non-anamorphic dvds would. How can I tell when I buy the dvd if it will appear ok?

- bones

 

[Damin J Toell]

Actually, anamorphic 1.33:1 won't gain or lose any resolution on a 4:3 TV...if it's encoded to be "centered" which basically means the black bars on the sides would be cropped without the use of a 16x9 TV.

Just because it's centered properly to eliminate the black bars, it doesn't mean that there's no loss of resolution. Indeed, there would still be a loss of horizontal resolution on 4x3 screens; although the image would fill the screen, a 4x3 screen can't somehow "add" the missing horizontal pixels.

DJ

 

[Michael Reuben]

So, it appears The Princess Bride dvd does not show the correct AR on my setup, but that other non-anamorphic dvds would.

No, you'll have the same problem with other non-anamorphic discs. As you've surmised, the problem is how your TV handles progressive scan. This is a limitation of your particular hardware. The solution (short of changing your equipment) is to play non-anamorphic discs in interlaced mode, which should allow you to use the zoom setting.

Don't get caught up in the labels ("zoom", "widescreen", "fullscreen", etc.). There's nothing inherently right or wrong about any particular display mode on a 16:9 set. It's a question of matching the correct display mode to the specific DVD. Your set isn't letting you do that in progressive scan.

M.

 

[JohnVB]

Michael,

Ok, I think I got it.

Anamorphic is mostly about getting more scan-lines onto the TV.

As far as aspect ratios go, if you get anamorphic widescreen, then it plays correctly on both 4:3 and 16:9 and you can play it with progressive scan on your dvd players. If you get letterbox widescreen, then it plays correctly on 4:3 and 16:9, but on most current dvd players, you have to play it in interlaced mode and switch to 'zoom' on the TV for 16:9.

Does this sound right to everyone?

BTW, on most TV's if you switch to 'zoom' mode, do you loose part of the picture on the left and on the right?

- bones

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

You shouldn't. Some TVs have multiple zoom modes- some zoom in far enough to eliminate bars on 2.35:1 material- in which case they might also crop the sides.
-V

 

[Michael Reuben]

but on most current dvd players, you have to play it in interlaced mode and switch to 'zoom' on the TV for 16:9.

Vince already said this, but it bears repeating: The "lock-in-full" problem is a function of your TV, not the DVD player. (I would go so far as to call it a "design flaw", but I'd probably offend someone. )
M.

 

[Kevin M]

New Line used the letterboxed 4:3 anamorphic for some of the extras on Se7en.

Many of Anchor Bay's documentaries and featurettes are window-boxed.