An observation about SVS subs...

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Steve Stogel, Nov 29, 2003.

  1. Steve Stogel

    Steve Stogel Supporting Actor

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    I'm just curious. How come when someone gets an SVS, they play the ever livin' crap out of it, shake their fillings loose, sometimes crack window panes, and get yelled out by spousi and neighbors alike, but whenever you see one for sale in the HTF Hardware For Sale forum, it's one of the few SVS subs that "has never been pushed hard" or "never bottomed out"?

    This is, of course, meant in jest. I had an original 25-31 (22hz tune), and it was a beast. I've sold it since then (here at HTF), and when I did, I was sure to point out that I used "just a 150w amp" to power it. I don't think I said I never pushed it hard, though, becuase God knows I did...and loved every minute of it.

    So I was just curious if anyone else has ever noticed that a lot of used SVS's (and all subs for sale in the For Sale forum, really) have "hardly been pushed"?

    "Why am I upgrading, you ask? Well, I just wanted a little more oomph, so I'm going with the PB-Ultra." WELL THEN OF COURSE IT'S BEEN PUSHED, AND YOU WANT MORE!!!! [​IMG] Sorry. It's late, I'm tired, and it just struck me as funny when I was over in the For Sale forum.

    BTW, I replaced my SVS with a DIY Tempest sub (someone else DIY'd, I just bought it when he moved into a 3rd story apartment) with 217 liters of internal volume and two four-inch flared ports. Talk about cashing in any and all brownie points I've ever had with my wife. Did I mentioned it's nicely covered...with a crushed red velvet? How lucky am I to have found this woman?

    Steve
     
  2. Mitch Stevens

    Mitch Stevens Supporting Actor

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    I too, have noticed this when looking at used sub prices. They always say it wasn't pushed hard, and has never been bottomed out. Of course we know they are lying. I think the main purpose of doing this is because no one wants to buy a used sub that has been bottomed out repeatedly. So, the owner feels the need to lie about the abuse he gave the sub, so that it sells better (and also, so that they could sell it for roughly the same amount that they bought it for).
     
  3. Robert_Gaither

    Robert_Gaither Screenwriter

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    I can honestly say I don't abuse my subs, that's why I have so many of them to help share the load.[​IMG]
     
  4. MichaelDDD

    MichaelDDD Supporting Actor

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    Real Name:
    Mike
    For Sale:

    DIY 12" Tempest/Shiva/JBL/CV Sub in 200 litre ported box.
    Cabinet made of 3/4" MDF with massive internal bracing.
    Cabinet is raw MDF on top, 3 different color primers on rest
    Powered for only 6 months with 1Kw amp.
    Beat the ever-living-crap out of this thing and it won't die
    Sub has been bottomed-out numerous times...too many to list!
    Voice coil smells faintly of smoke, but sub plays fine
    Make offer: 1 800 DEA-DSUB.

    [​IMG] Truth in advertising or satirical piece? You decide. [​IMG]


    FWIW, I buy my equipment to use. I would never set everything to "10" just to "see what'll happen!" but I do/will play it loud. If it blows during what I consider to be normal use, then I won't buy that brand anymore. Simple.
     
  5. ScottCarr

    ScottCarr Second Unit

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    Having 2 PB2+ in a relatively small HT I can honestly say they have not bee pushed hard. well the first weekend I had them, I tested them out along with ear protection.

    when I had the PC+ they were pushed hard but not in an abusing way. when I went to tweeter they demoed a few subs and the gains seem to be set for 75% and then they crank the sub setting on the receiver to max. regardless of the volume all I heard was bass.

    SVS owners usually can't push there subs that hard. along with neighbors they usually can afford to keep fixing the broken windows, picture frames, fix the cracks in walls and ceilings and so on.

    just my thoughts
    Scott
     
  6. DavidVT

    DavidVT Stunt Coordinator

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    Hello Steve,

    I was the one who bought your sub, got her home and cleaned her up and shes been going great. When my b-day came the wife bought me a second one + an ISD for your (my) sub.

     
  7. Steve Stogel

    Steve Stogel Supporting Actor

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    Hey, David. Glad to know Betsy (that's what I named her...leave me alone) is doing well for ya. I saw shortly after you bought her that you were going with the ISD upgrade and another 25-31. In your sealed HT, that must be some impressive bass. They really are very, very impressive. Which amp did you end up going with, David? I know you bought a QSC RMX850, but I know there are some fan issues with that. Is that what you stuck with, and if so, did you do a fan mod? I'm still using my 150w amp for the DIY Tempest I bought (the thing really is amazing, but it's freaking huge). I'm thinking that when I upgrade my amp I may go after a used Adcom GFA 555 because I think there are less fan noise issues with it.




    I don't think that's true, Scott. You overbought, for sure, so you'll find it hard to push your SVS's. But my experience seems to be that when people replace a boombox type sub with an SVS that they sometimes feel unsatisfied with the bass performance they get at first (seeing as how there's not a huge hump in the 40-60 Hz range) and have to hear true, even bass for a while before it grows on them. I, for example, got an original 25-31 in a riduculously open floor plan, so there's no way I could get anywhere near reference level bass with it. It still was very impressive even for that area, but around 10-15 dB below reference, by bass just stopped getting louder. So I think that unless people buy "enough" SVS off the bat, they can very possibly drive them very, very hard.

    Of course, I bought my SVS 2-3 years ago, and the only options at that time were the CS or the Ultra, I believe. With all they have now, it would be hard to buy SVS without getting enough sub (because of the prices and all), so in that sense I think you're right. I also don't think many people would abuse their SVS's because if you do bottom it out, it's not a sound you want to experience again. I never bottomed mine with the 150w, but I know from reading posts that when you do reach the limits of an SVS, it's not a pretty sound.

    Anyway, just my observations.

    Steve
     
  8. DavidVT

    DavidVT Stunt Coordinator

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    Steve,

    I ended up getting a Crest CPX2600 (750 X2 @4ohm)at a killer deal, it does have some fan noise but not at all like the QSC had. Only really bothers me with very very quiet SACD and movie passages. I really think that youd be in heaven with a larger amp for your Tempest. You can check out the theater by clicking the house icon above [​IMG]
     
  9. Steve Stogel

    Steve Stogel Supporting Actor

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    David, your HT looks awesome. Man, I'd love a dedicated HT room. I love how dark it is. Must have great black levels. Do you have an LCD PJ or CRT or what? Very, very nice. Is that middle chair a little smaller (perhaps for the little one)? Nice touch.

    Steve

    PS - Did you just return the QSC? That Crawn has got a ton of power and seems to be decently priced when I did a search for it on eBay. May actually be overkill (of course, if I ever replace the Tempest with a Tumult...but I digress.
     
  10. DavidVT

    DavidVT Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Steve,

    Its a Z1, not the best blacks, but good enough for me... HDTV is superb. I plan on upgrading to the Z2 middle of next year. The middle chair is for my son, funny how you picked up on that. I traded in the QSC plus $25.00 and got the CPX, definetly overkill, but eventually I plan on getting the Ultras so I wont be hurting for power. And then again, with the release of the PB2-ISD I may get it and save some cash, should go well with the 22-31s
     
  11. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Steve,

    Rest assured, that not everyone pushes their SVS to find the limits.

    My PB-2+ (and prior to that the CS Ultra) never bottomed out. I did bottom out a pair of 16-46CSs, and blew a pair of driversbut that was due to a preamp problem (+35v directly to the output, a soldering flaw on the circuit board).

    So there are individuals out there (like me) how aren't interested in finding out just how loud the products can go. I don't calibrate subwoofers hot, and I don't shoot for reference level unless I'm specifically trying to push a product, and then only for brief periods.

    105dB peaks in a huge auditorium feels different to me than 105dB peaks in my modestly sized Multi-channel Audio/HT Room.

    Cheers,
     
  12. ScottCarr

    ScottCarr Second Unit

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    Steve,

    Generally I run one sub when a movie is rolling at decent volumes.

    For music I have found that firing up both subs at lower volumes the and the fronts set to large the SVS are more complementary than 1 at a higher volume.

    I did over buy for sure but at lower volumes the 2 PB2+ do sound very good.

    I have been thinking of selling the 2 and moving into the dual ultras.

    Its all in fun.
     
  13. Gabriel_Lam

    Gabriel_Lam Screenwriter

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    I've ordered a B4+ and a K2, and am in a 3000 cubic foot room. I'd probably die a horrible horrible death if I explored the limits. [​IMG]
     
  14. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    Gabriel_Lam.. please let us know how it goes. My room is just barely bigger not much. I have the PB2+ and is does very nicely but I am always going to wonder.. what if I got the PB4 ya know. Anywa keep us updated and congrats and welcome to the SVS family.
     
  15. MarkyM

    MarkyM Agent

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    If you have a well calibrated system, you should be able to push a sub hard and it should (99%) never bottom out
     
  16. Jai

    Jai Agent

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  17. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    No need for ear protection if we're strictly talking about subwoofers.
     
  18. Steve Stogel

    Steve Stogel Supporting Actor

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    While I agree that proper calibration will normally protect your sub, my initial post was more a jab at how every time someone is selling a subwoofer it's usually mentioned that it was "always used at moderate listening levels" "never pushed hard" et cetera. I'll agree that if you ever run across someone selling a PB2+ or Ultra that odds are the sub rarely broke a sweat. But as all of us who have owned a CS SVS (especially pre-ISD), those historically were pushed hard by just about everybody. But when they sell the CS to upgrade to the Ultra, Plus, or PB2+, they mention that it was babied or hardly ever used. I'm not being critical, it just ticked my funny bone last night (very little sleep) when I was perusing the For Sale forum.

    Steve
     
  19. Eric A

    Eric A Second Unit

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    Steve,
    I have owned 4 SVS subs and sold them all. I originally owned 2 25-31CS+'s and drove them fairly hard. In my ad I do not think I stated anything mentioning about how hard I drove them. Recently I sold 2 16-46CS's and in this ad I did state that they were never driven hard or bottomed out. The reason I stated this? It was the truth. I was driving them from a Parasound amp that was also powering some of my other channels. If I drove the subs too hard it clipped and shut down. Basically I just set my Peak Limiter to as loud as I could go before the amp started clipping. This limited my output substantially but ended up being good for the buyer of my subs in the long run. No dig here or anything but I did want to point out a way this actually may be true. Otherwise, I would be real leary of buying a SVS second hand and probably would be careful.
     
  20. Mike SJ

    Mike SJ Supporting Actor

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    "If you have a well calibrated system, you should be able to push a sub hard and it should (99%) never bottom out"

    a properly designed sub that is...

    my solution, just to buy a new SVS and everyone is happy [​IMG]
     

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