An article that everyone who cares about DVD should read (1 Viewer)

[Adam*M]

The thing that suprised me was the figure that said 40% of DVD buyers had never seen the contents. Are that many people really buying blind? I own about 500 DVD's now, and I have done a blind buy maybe 3 times.

 

[Michael Elliott]

Adam, I personally think a lot of stuff dealing with DVDs are blind buys. The reason I say that is prices are so low that more people can try out a film if they haven't seen it. You can get Fox, Paramount and MGM titles for $10, which is cheaper than someone going to theater. Warner titles are $15, which is again, cheaper than going to the theater.

If you've seen me post in any Criterion threads you'll see me bashing them for their high prices, which takes away that "blind try" for most people. I'm somewhat of a film buff so I really appreciate these studios keeping the prices down so that I can buy more discs, many of which are blind buys. I don't go to the theaters anymore so newer films would also have to be blind buys.

Another reason people do more blind buys is that Wal-Mart has some very good films in their $5.50 bin, their $7.50 and $8.88 racks. Then you've got BB and CC with their 2 for $15 or 3 for $20 deals.

 

[Ernest Rister]

I'm no Matrix nut, but from my own perspective on DVD history, it was the original The Matrix DVD that helped boost the fortunes of the format in terms of unit sales. In terms of cementing the possibilities of DVD, I don't think any one disc can receive that credit -- The Matrix, A Bug's Life:CE, Brazil: Criterion, The Abyss: SE, The Fantasia Anthology, Fight Club, Saving Private Ryan, and others all helped demonstrate the potential for DVD. I have a hard time swallowing the idea that the Fight Club DVD single-handedly proved to studio execs what could be done on digital versatile discs.

 

[Paul.S]

I feel and to some extent agree with you, Ernest. But I think the point that Dunn/the article is making is about DVD sales vis-a-vis the b.o. performance of the pic in question.

In other words, Fight Club underperformed theatrically. Unlike nearly all of the other DVDs you mention (I think Brazil requires a little different analysis since it is a Criterion title), there was not an expectation that Fight Club was going to be a big seller on DVD.

Per what I mention in my post #33, sans Fincher's and Prior's involvement, the studio probably would have released a movie-only disc (and there's plenty of precedent for Fox having done this on movies that did better at the b.o. than Fight Club), it may not have sold as well and the studio would have thereby made their own expected results of poor DVD sales from a b.o. underperformer a fait accompli. Putting two separate sets of Dunn comments together, it also stands to reason that the packaging--something he mentioned his having anecdotal evidence of being very important to impulse DVD buyers--of Fight Club was also influential. FC was the first big Digipak release. Apparently it was enough of a sales success for Fox to go back and re-package and re-release Sound Of Music, Cast Away and Die Hard in Digis also.

But instead of a movie-only release, we got a lotta supps. on that first release that didn't just drive sales (and led to the recommendation by EW despite their panning the film), but drove sales to levels totally disproportionate to the b.o. performance of the film.

I think the point is that, although we've grown used to seeing "Revenue as % of box office" figures in the 150+ range in SoundScan DVD sales charts, Fight Club was one of the first big films (and it's not surprising that Dunn chose to mention one of this studio's own films) whose DVD success was not foretold by b.o. numbers. Antwone Fisher is another (Fox) example: that disc made something like $20M in its first few days of release.

Less on the financial and more on the sociocultural tip, I think subject matter plays a role in what some auds buy/rent on disc versus seeing in theaters. I'm reminded of something Oprah said about Beloved's fairly weak b.o. compared to Roots' boffo Neilsen numbers: she posited that it's perhaps easier for some to watch difficult subject matter in their own living room than it is to do so in a darkened theater full of strangers. I wonder if that played a role in some (30+/older?) auds purchase/rental of FC.

-p

 

[Ernest Rister]

The growth of DVD was fast and pronounced, cutting across many demographics. In the early days, it skewed male. There were long discussions about family titles, and if they would sell on the format (turns out all they had to do was produce family DVDs and promote them -- A Bug's Life was at one time the highest selling DVD ever, until The Matrix was released some weeks later).

Laserdisc fans also know that David Fincher was aggressive with supplements for his laserdisc sets for The Game and Seven. It didn't surprise me that Fincher would make a two-disc set for Fight Club, and to be honest, nothing on the Fight Club DVD strikes me as being anything special that we hadn't seen before on DVD prior to its release.

So was the DVD for Fight Clb so extraordinary that it boosted a flop into a hit?

NO. Studios wish that were true.

The truth is that Fight Club would have taken off in the home markets regardless of DVD. It's just that kind of zeitgeist movie. If DVD had never existed, Fight Club - like Shawshank Redemption - would have been discovered and would have become a hit on home video.

Fight Club was a film about young 90's men, made for young 90's men, and it became a cultural touchstone, as large as The Graduate or The Breakfast Club. It is so much a film of and for it's time. Audiences had to discover it, though -- like Shawshank. DVD had nothing to do with that, it is only a information delivery system - we have to give the credit to the movie.

The Shawshank Redemption didn't need DVD or laserdisc to become a hit in the home -- and I wager, neither did Fight Club. Fight Club did not become a hit in the home because of a loaded DVD, it became a hit in the home because of its own merits. I truly pity any executive who looks at the box office numbers for Fight Club, and then looks at the home video sales, and concludes that the home video format was the reason the film became a hit.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

I have to disagree (even though I'm still cracking up over your Live-Aid solution!)

Matrix was a BO hit. It stood to reason that the DVD sales for it would be big too. That's a no-brainer.

Fight Club I have never seen, but it bombed at the BO. Many were surprised that it even came out on DVD, but even more so about all of the extras. The movie didn't make the DVD, the DVD made the movie. If they are going to look at DVD sales, then look at Fight Club, but only because of the extras.

I'm not saying that the movie was bad, but again, if it had been a good movie, the BO sales would have showed it, even if it would have taken a couple of days for word of mouth to get around that this movie was a 'must see'.

Glenn

 

[Andrew Priest]

What about The Shawshank Redemption? Are you saying it wasn't a good movie? After all, it did even worse in the theater than Fight Club did.

Box office numbers are hardly a measure of quality.

 

[Kevin M]

Boy that's a shaky position at best. There are far too many personal examples I could give but they would all be personal opinions so I'll use two classic examples...Citizen Kane was not a BO success at all but is considered by many to be the best film ever made (debatable) - Vertigo was not a BO smash either but is considered by most (myself included) to be Hitch's best film.

 

[GeorgePaul]

Other lukewarm B.O. performers that are now classics:

It's a Wonderful Life
Fantasia
Somewhere in Time (perhaps the first film to garner a mass following primarily from home video)

Number one movies at the box office in the past year have included such "classics" as

The Grudge
Van Helsing
The Forgotten (and it was, after one week)

 

[Ernest Rister]

"Fight Club I have never seen, but it bombed at the BO. Many were surprised that it even came out on DVD."

Many were surprised that Fight Club even came out on DVD? Like who? People were surprised that a film starring Brad Pitt - one of three Oscar-nominated actors in the cast - a film directed by David Fincher, was coming out on DVD? Were they also surprised when Amistad came out on DVD? Fight Club outgrossed Amistad, I believe. Was anyone surprised when Amistad came out? Are these same people also surprised when the sun rises in the East and sets in the West?

"but even more so about all of the extras."

The only people who would be surprised about "all the extras" on the Fight Club DVD would be those unfamiliar with David Fincher and his penchant for supplementary material, a'la his laserdiscs for Seven and The Game. I'm more surprised by extra content appearing on a DVD for a Spielberg film than I am by extra content appearing on a Fincher DVD.

"The movie didn't make the DVD, the DVD made the movie."

No, I cannot disagree more. If that was true, how come the elaborate "Infinifilm" DVD for Little Nicky didn't make that film a home video smash? How come the acclaimed Collector's Edition DVD for Dinosaur hasn't done squat to improve that film's poor reputation?

"I'm not saying that the movie was bad, but again, if it had been a good movie, the BO sales would have showed it"

Fight Club was rated R, it did not make huge numbers on opening weekend, it was panned by Roger Ebert, the studio did not spend any "2nd weekend" money to continue promoting it, and it disappeared from theaters quickly. It was "discovered" on home video because of the movie. Check the logic of what you're saying -- are you seriously suggesting the film became a big hit on DVD because people who wouldn't go see the film in a theater decided to spend $20 on the DVD because it had some commentary tracks and f/x demonstrations? Fight Club became a hit on home video because of the *movie*, not the format.

And the list of films that under-performed in initital release but are regarded as classics today is longer than my arm.

 

[Robert Anthony]

I think the idea behind the article is correct, but they picked the wrong Fox DVD. I honestly think it was their "Moulin Rouge" disc that was what really opened people's eyes to the power of the medium, simply because almost everyone on the academy admitted it was the DVD release that got them to check it out again, and the supplementals that caused them to really think hard about the work that went into that film. Moulin Rouge got a lot of very middling reviews, and the box office wasn't that great. The DVD comes out, and it sells FANTASTICALLY. and the Reviews for the DVD are spectacular--and even the reviews for the movie itself get warmer and warmer.

Oscar rolls around, and it picks up a pretty large number of nominations for a hyperkinetic pop-musical that wasn't especially well recieved on it's release.

I think THAT was what opened people's eyes in the industry--this DVD pretty much got that movie a bunch of Oscar noms. And considering the brouhaha now about moving the awards back, screeners and all that--studios are now realizing a top notch special edition streeting in November/December is not only a goldmine financially due to the holiday season, but it's an extremely efficient bit of Oscar campaigning if you do it right.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

I agree with 'Moulin Rouge', but we have to look at the dates here. 'Moulin Rouge' was another 'leap' up for DVD sales. 'Fight Club' was like way back in '99, and to have a 2-disk SE come out for a movie that didn't do so hot was a bold move back then. That was what did it.

How many single disk DVD's are out that you wish had a second disk for? For today's movies, they plan on making extras even before the movie is even made, but 5 years ago that wasn't the norm.

Glenn

 

[Paul D G]

If you look at imdb, Fight Club has an 8.5 rating (98.5k votes) and is listed at #40 for the top 250 films.

I wouldn't classify that as a bad movie, and I doubt these people are voting because they liked the DVD extras.

I saw Fight Club in theatres and I thought it was excellent. I liked it even better the second time.

-paul

 

[Vincent Matis]

Yes, but what about the first DVD releases of Se7en or The Game (or Alien³) ?
The point is, the studio made the investment in producing a SE for Fight Club. The fact that all the crew/actors were willing to participate was of course a big plus too... I could be wrong but I don't think that the money for the SE came from Fincher's pocket.

 

[Robert Anthony]

The film itself was released in 99, yes, I believe the DVD came out late 2000. Moulin Rouge came out in 2001, and the DVD released the same year. I tend to think the Fight Club DVD woke people up to how the Criterion Laserdisc treatment really CAN be done with DVD, and the Moulin Rouge DVD showed how well it can work as far as sales and acclaim really go.

 

[Ernest Rister]

"The film itself was released in 99, yes, I believe the DVD came out late 2000."

I think it might have been Summer 2000. I seem to remember it being out before October 2000. Of course, Fall of 2000 saw the release of two higly-regarded sets in their own right: The Ultimate Toy Box and The Fantasia Anthology, as well as the Jurassic Park films.
When did the SE for Seven come out on DVD? Before or after Fight Club? Anyone know?

When did the three disc Brazil: Criterion street?
When did the two-disc A Bug's Life: CE street?
Silence of the Lambs: Criterion?
Robocop: Criterion?
When did the feature-packed James Bond DVDs street?
The feature-packed Aliens DVD?
The feature-packed Abyss: SE?

As much as I respect Fight Club, I just can't get my head around the notion that it was the DVD for Fight Club that proved how useful bonus content could be for DVD sales. On the one hand, I sort of take it as a truism that older films are loaded up with bonus content as a carrot to get consumers to double-dip (a practice that we all know exists to this very day). On the other, I can see Robert and George's point that bonus content can *perhaps* convince people they are getting a good value in taking a chance on a blind buy. From my perspective, and this is just my supposition and opinion, Fight Club was just one of those movies that got lost in theaters, and was discovered on home video. I give the credit to the movie, I just can't give the credit to three commentary tracks and pre-viz and f/x demonstrations.

 

[Ernest Rister]

"The film itself was released in 99, yes, I believe the DVD came out late 2000."

I think it might have been Summer 2000. I seem to remember it being out before October 2000. Of course, Fall of 2000 saw the release of two higly-regarded sets in their own right: The Ultimate Toy Box and The Fantasia Anthology, as well as the Jurassic Park films.
When did the SE for Seven come out on DVD? Before or after Fight Club? Anyone know?

When did the three disc Brazil: Criterion street?
When did the two-disc A Bug's Life: CE street?
Silence of the Lambs: Criterion?
Robocop: Criterion?
When did the feature-packed James Bond DVDs street?
The feature-packed Aliens DVD?
The feature-packed Abyss: SE?

As much as I respect Fight Club, I just can't get my head around the notion that it was the DVD for Fight Club that proved how useful bonus content could be for DVD sales. On the one hand, I sort of take it as a truism that older films are loaded up with bonus content as a carrot to get consumers to double-dip (a practice that we all know exists to this very day). On the other, I can see Robert and George's point that bonus content can *perhaps* convince people they are getting a good value in taking a chance on a blind buy. From my perspective, and this is just my supposition and opinion, Fight Club was just one of those movies that got lost in theaters, and was discovered on home video. I give the credit to the movie, I just can't give the credit to three commentary tracks and pre-viz and f/x demonstrations.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Actually, it was the Spring of 2000. June 6th, to be exact.

Glenn

 

[Robert Anthony]

This board is acting weird. I'm responding to Ernests' post, which is on page 3, and it just stuck me in between Glenn and Sean on page 2.

Weeeiiird.

 

[Robert Anthony]

Ernest, as per usual, comes with the truth