Amp question for Vince M.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Rick P., Aug 14, 2000.

  1. Rick P.

    Rick P. Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Vince
    I'm shopping for a new amp and was going to go with the Crown CE 1000 (like that variable-speed fan!). Then I found the Crest VS 900 on the net for about the same price (actually $30 cheaper). I can't listen to the Crest since I haven't found one locally (not that I looked very hard, mind you). I know you're a big Crest fan, so what would you suggest. I'll be driving a pair of 12" Dayton subs (Shiva clones) with it.
    Advice appreciated,
    Rick
     
  2. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Wowee, my second questions this week: I'm damn near a celebrity round these parts... I'm starting to feel like Tom.
    Let me first start out by saying Crest and Crown are my two favorite amplifier manufacturers on the planet! Both are excellent performers, and both are widely respected in the professional world. I think either amplifier would be a good purchase: and a workhorse in a hometheater!
    The CE series from Crown is essentially Crown's budget model product: meant to compete on the "working musician" market with the amps from Mackie and the Cheap QSC amplifiers.

    [​IMG]
    crown ce1000 and ce 2000

    The VS (and the regular V) series from Crest are also their budget product, although I think they are meant to be closer to Crown's midrange amps.

    [​IMG]
    crest vs900

    I have to admit that my hands on experience with the CE and the VS series is quite limited: I usually work with the Macrotech from Crown and the Professional "PRO" series from Crest.
    But, for the little I have seen and the fair amount I have heard: it seems that Crest bests the Crown in the budget class pretty easily (which, is pretty much the way I also feel about their pro amps, so I guess it should be suspected the same would hold true on their lower end models!) So, in reputation: the title goes easily to CREST.
    Now the VS900 does something like 450WPC @ 4ohms stereo and 1100W into 4ohms bridged. The Crown CE1000, if I remember correctly was basically the same (maybe 25 watts higher per channel in Stereo?) So they're pretty much dead even in the spec'd output category.
    In looks, I have to once again favor the Crest. Much more professional and tasteful: the red trim on the Crown CE has always turned me off. I want my amps to look institutional! The Input knobs on the Crest are on the back side, where they are SUPPOSED to be (nobody can tinker with them when you're not looking): heck if I remember correctly: the kobs on the Crest are even recessed!
    So, your only stumbling block might be the fans and connectors. I don't how loud the Crest amps are in terms of fan noise vs the Crown, or if the Crest has variable fan speeds. In addition, I remember reading that some models of Crest amps only have Speakon connectors: but that could be complete bull or maybe only overseas... but it would be worth checking on before you buy (unless you'd like to build speakon cables, which would be pretty cool!)
    But, if that isn't a big issue: then I would personally run right out and buy the Crest! Both amps would probably serve well in this lower demand home application: but I think the Crest amp will edge the Crown out by a nose.
    One other note: I have noticed that in the pro series: the Crest amps rated the same output as the Crown seemed to perform better in actual real world application. I usually avoid using meaningless audio "catch phrases" but I've always found Crest power to be slightly more "effortless" than Crown!
    So Crest certainly gets my vote: and Heck, if you don't like it- I'll probably need a new amp for my subs soon [​IMG]
    -Vince
    PS: There are now a few other soundguys (and former soundguys/dabblers) hanging on the forum, and given my limited hands on experience with the budget Crest and Crown products, you might want to send a private message to guys like Danny Owens, Martin Schmencke, WayneP and have them drop in with their opinions as well: they may have more hands on with the lower end Crest/Crown products than myself!
    ------------------
    http://www.musicianassist.com
    Anyone want a free CD? Click Here .
     
  3. Rick P.

    Rick P. Stunt Coordinator

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    >>>Now the VS900 does something like 450WPC @ 4ohms stereo and 1100W into 4ohms bridged. The Crown CE1000, if I remember correctly was basically the same (maybe 25 watts higher per channel in Stereo?) So they're pretty much dead even in the spec'd output category.>In looks, I have to once again favor the Crest. Much more professional and tasteful: the red trim on the Crown CE has always turned me off. I want my amps to look institutional! The Input knobs on the Crest are on the back side, where they are SUPPOSED to be (nobody can tinker with them when you're not looking): heck if I remember correctly: the kobs on the Crest are even recessed! >So, your only stumbling block might be the fans and connectors. I don't how loud the Crest amps are in terms of fan noise vs the Crown, or if the Crest has variable fan speeds. In addition, I remember reading that some models of Crest amps only have Speakon connectors: but that could be complete bull or maybe only overseas... but it would be worth checking on before you buy (unless you'd like to build speakon cables, which would be pretty cool!) >But, if that isn't a big issue: then I would personally run right out and buy the Crest! Both amps would probably serve well in this lower demand home application: but I think the Crest amp will edge the Crown out by a nose.
     
  4. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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  5. Martin Schmencke

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    I've been using Crown amps for about 25 years and I think the CE's are one of my least favroites of all time. I guess Crown is finally feeling the pressure to compete at a lower price point ( for a long time they never really did ). I don't have much hands on experience with these particular Crests, but I do agree with Vince ( what a surprise ) that Crest does make a quality product. You might also want to check out the availablitiy of some of the QSC offerings at this price point ( although I seem to remember there was some broughaha over the ratings of some of the QSC stuff a while back, and claims that the products shipped were different than those given for reviews and "certification", but I don't think those charges were ever proven, and I could also be remembering wrong - Vince ? )
     
  6. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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  7. Martin Schmencke

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    "(their worst amp of all times, IMHO, goes to the POWER BASE series!). "
    It's funny, because I always ( consciously ? subconsciously ? ) don't even consider those as Crown amps. It's my gut feeling that they were always intended as musical instuments amplifiers ( really bass gutiar amps ) that they refused to put the warning label "don't use these for PA's" on. I have ( fro some bizarre reason ) spent a good deal of time wondering why Crown makes the CE, since you would think it would dilute their brand name. The best thing I've come up with so far is the logic that they have been around for so long and have been known as "quality" for so long, that the guys who "really count" will know the difference and not buy the CE's and therefore not be disappointed.
    Hey, I didn't say it was a good answer, just the only reasonable one I can come up with ( yes, I know "greed", but that's the motivation, not the "rationalle" ).
     
  8. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    Rick P.,
    Go by an audio shop and listen to the fan. I did and noticed the Crown CE fan was the loudest compared to Mackie M series and QSC RMX series. Maybe the fan was on full speed or something but if it wasn't I wouldn't want that in my listening room. Better check them out before you buy as the fan noise varies a lot between brands. My Mackie fan is too loud for me, I out in a 180ohm 10W resistor and it worked a lot but I have ordered a 1900 rpm fan instead of the 2900rpm fan and am still going to put some resistors to slow it down more so its almost silent.
     
  9. Steve Peterson

    Steve Peterson Stunt Coordinator

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    I am really impressed with the Crest V/Vs amps. We use them at my church for our on-stage monitor system where they get ALOT of abuse. We have hung enough speakers off the line to drive the line impedence down to 2 ohms, and the amps keep banging away. (Mind you this is not something I try to do on a regular basis, but when the music director say "I need another monitor here!", you don't ignore him. [​IMG])
    When we ordered our amps, we had the option of getting them with or without speakon jacks, so you may want to check with that. It may require a special order from your local pro shop, but is solves having to buy those expensive speakon connectors.
    ------------------
     
  10. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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  11. AVspec

    AVspec Supporting Actor

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    Thanks Vince, I was wondering what those connectors on the back of my QSC EX-800's were used for! Learned something new today!
    ------------------
    -Mark
    **** Digital Vortex ****
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  12. Martin Schmencke

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    the connectors that I used to use were intended of AC power, and you could get up to 4 "leads" on them, they were white plastic, round and you would plug them into a cooresponding "cup" on the speaker end ( the cup was actually the "male", with the prongs recessed, and the wire termination was actually "female", opposite to the standard conventions ) and then they would twist to "lock in". I can't for the life of me remember what these were called, so I'm having no luck finding any pictures, etc. on the web. Do you have any idea what I'm talking about ???? Do guys still uses these on their rigs ?
     
  13. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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  14. Martin Schmencke

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    It's similar to that, but not exactly. I think that I've seen them used recently by "movie guys" for A/C power cables to connect to the sides of "power trailers" with geneerators inside. there are rows and rows of these on the side of the trailers. usually they are three prong, where the prongs look similar to the prongs in a three prong male A/C cord, but they are curve to form parts of a circle, with the ground prong havinf a little "L" on the end of it going into a notch on the female. The purcpose of these curved prongs is that after you "push" the female plug on, you make like 1/4 turn and the whole thing "locks in". ( as opposed to the "threaded ring" type lock-in for the "CB's" ).
    I think they may have been manufactured by Hubbell.
     
  15. Martin Schmencke

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    Well, I think I found the three prong version:
    Hubbell Insulgrip Twistlock HBL4729C plugs & HBL4716 flanged inlets.
    PS The cords we used had two female plugs. The speaker had a flanged inlet. The back of the amp rack had a board with rows of flanged inlets, which were wired to the backs of the amps. that way, you didn't have to reach into the amp rack to get to the back of each amp, just "push and turn" at the back panel. The reason we used the female plugs on the end of the cords is that you wouldn't have a connector with anything fragile/bendable ever left out where it couldget stepped on and bent. The cupped inlet also acted as a guide when making the connection.
     
  16. Rick P.

    Rick P. Stunt Coordinator

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    >>>Go by an audio shop and listen to the fan. I did and noticed the Crown CE fan was the loudest compared to Mackie M series and QSC RMX series.
     
  17. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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  18. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    One other issue you might not have considered with the Crown CE series. With its big air inlets in the front it allows you to easily see the colection of dust in the amp, the one on display at the store I went to had the look of the inside of a computer. This may or may not be an issue for you.
    Crown states a proportional speed fan, how many speeds is it? I know the Mackie and the QSC use 2 speed fans, high/low.
    Terry
     
  19. Martin Schmencke

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    That's basically the same thing. They were great for several reasons:
    1) Nobody else used them, which was good when we were at a gig where there were multiple rigs being used ( no one could claim any of our stuff was theirs, nor would they have any reason to want to !! ).
    2) Since they are really rugged, they were great for stage monitors ( so my idiots didn't kick the f***ing things out ).
    3) Since they were so big and clunky, they were easier both to label and to let idiots handle.
    4) You could get them in multiple colors, so you knew if you were using the "right cord" ( for example: all monitors get orange, bass bins red, strap from bass bins to mids yellow, etc. ).
    5) For some reason, I never liked the Speakons.
    6) These are big, manly connectors ( ok, so I spent too much time working with Metal bands ).
    The biggest disadvantage; some idiot might plug one of your speakers into an A/C outlet ( that's why we tried to go "reverse convention" whenever we could ).
     
  20. Rick P.

    Rick P. Stunt Coordinator

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    WayneP, any comments on the Crown CE 1000 vs. Crest VS 900 amp?
    Terry C, you could be right. I suppose 'on' and 'off' could also be classified as 'proportional speed' with a little stretch of the imagination.
    Vince, you must have a HUGE clip-art collection. You seem to have pictures of everything!
    Rick
     

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