That’s my dilemma. Wonder if it’s streaming anywhere.It's only $5 but I can't see you doing a major reappraisal of the movie and becoming a fan either.
That’s my dilemma. Wonder if it’s streaming anywhere.It's only $5 but I can't see you doing a major reappraisal of the movie and becoming a fan either.
Are we going to get into trouble talking about this film (A II) in a forum for a different film, 1999's "The Haunting?" ....well:
Yes, another fan
Magner is so unsung. He's f*cking believable and compelling in every scene (except when he screams in the green lighting and the house freaks out). Just balls out acting: "go away damned bitch" was a shocker as he was manifesting/suffering, and being on the stairs from POV of the demon, his simmering birthday party at the dinner table, avoiding the priest, attacking the priest...but again, that jail cell scene (though the set looked so staged), though, was about the best that showed a lot of range in his Sonny character and the actor: confusion, mockery, possession, pain, physical attacking, and inside religious knowledge ... yet ultimately, pathos.
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You are right, Adam, afterwards Magner did seem to age more than expected. Great pictures you added...I've seen them, & think they average around 2010-2015-ish. I'm sure he's been asked a million times why he left acting and what career choice he changed to. But I just can't find his answer...? Amityville II was very, very negatively received by critics - really bad. And that could have damaged his career at the time despite this strong, leading role. His subsequent small role in Firestarter is virtually forgettable - sad. Maybe he had a bad agent, too. Maybe he went into real estate? I've always wanted to know. It's all sad, b/c he showed a lot of promise in a very demanding, gutsy role. .....Quinton Tarantino (who liked this film a lot!) to the rescue? And then there is the beautifully haunting but tragic, then turning into menacing orchestral music ♫♪ - all in a few bars -that no one gives credit.
Yet honestly, there is a lot to bitch about the film, and I get it. Here is a wretched if condescending review, a lot of elements one can't deny, though some I disagree with ...just so unknowing home theater forum folks know this is NOT a liked film:
Amityville II: The Possession (1982) - Movie Review
Amityville II: The Possession - Movie review by film critic Tim Braytonwww.alternateending.com
And I wasn't complaining about you mentioning the time-period presentation of the film at all, just adding to it (not to mention Trica's totally `82s valley girl dress at the birthday party, the still-cool poster of Deborah Harry) - in fact, I think it's an interesting point to the film: Why wasn't it set in 1974..etc Good discussion about "marketing" a horror film at that time.
Your background is fantastic as you did a deeper dive into the history and living so close to the place....wow. And knowing folks close to each family - wow! Great to read about that. In the last year or so, I discovered an interview with a guy who was a friend of one of the DeFeo's as a boy. Regarding the whole story of the "Red Room" in the basement behind the stairs - he and one of the sons were friends, and were bored, and the father just gave them some paint and said they could paint that room red - pretty simple! And it blew up into this other gateway to hell thing. Hmm.... Yes, I am a fan...not the smartest though LOL - you are more advanced than myself. So, Adam:
* I also read 1979's "Murder in Amityville" by Hans Holzer ...back in the 1990s, and I thought it was either genuinely compelling and closer to the truth or sometimes amped-up, misguided bullshit. It seemed hot or cold to me....it's been so long, i can't think of examples, but that was the impressions I had. But I should read it again. I remember his daughter did an audio commentary as you mentioned (and reviews said she was not very good), though I haven't listened to it. What was most compelling about it to you?
* with "High Hopes: The Amityville Murders" - I will confess that the prosecuting attorney, Gerard Sullivan, I believe was very one-sided about nailing R DeFeo Jr. and he basically did. But his book brought up a lot of elements from the trial - I thought a lot of factual elements. A huge element was Sullivan's claim that DeFeo Jr really really really wanted the insurance policy and didn't want to share it with any of the family - and being narcisstic and regularly under the influence, basically let it rip one night & killed them all.... Though it's such a profoundly catastrophic thing to do, it's hard for me to believe there wasn't some kind of evil influence, too, that Sullivan ignored. been a long time since I read it, but that was my impression. So why do you only consider it "interesting?" Is it too one-sided? I think he dismisses supernatural, because it was a legal court case...and maybe that was unrealistic?
* tried to watch R Defeo Jr. in interviews on Youtube...and he's so narcissistic / sociopathic, I just can't finish his interviews. It's just like trying to watch Diane Downs in interviews. uggh...can't get through em. Am I missing something here?
* Attorney William Weber admittedly is a good speaker at first....but the more you listen to him and study him, he becomes so discredited and crooked, it's hard to watch him in interviews or give much credence to his claims, even if he was close to some of the people. Uggh. I'm acquaintances Chris Lutz (actually Quaratino) on Facebook, and he said some vicious things about Weber's recent death.
* I was at Barnes and Nobles one day, (back in the 1990s again) and came across Stephen Kaplan and his wife's book (forgot the title, but a black and white cover with them in front of the house). Chronicling items published against the Lutz claims and how the Lutz were damaging the fragile credibility of (1970s) burgeoning paranormal studies in academia and society (ie becoming ultimately preternatural). But I have to say, the more I read through Kaplan's book, the more hysterical and over the top resentful he became, which it seemed like it came from him being repeatedly rejected, ignored and mostly denied access to folks involved in Amityville. Well, join the crowd, dumbass. So his resentment charged forth and aimed to discredit the Lutz's and their affiliates right and left, with his "mission" to protect parapsychology. ...yeah. Though I believe he brought out some evidence to his claims, but after reading more and more.... I just wanted to yell at him to: get a life! I got tired of his massively negative claims...he just seemed resentful - a cry baby. Jealous. Sour grapes. Uggh. Even if he was validated, it was sickening. If you are humble, this jealous type vibe, doesn't shine through. Though, again, this was years and years ago when I read this....so these were my impressions. Maybe if I read it again today, I'd do a 180! LOL Anyway, do you think I'm off? What were your thoughts of him and his claims that you recall?
* Did you see 2012's "My Amityville Horror" with Daniel Lutz? An angry man always plays pretty well on screen, imo. I.E.: the VERY intense Daniel Lutz of today!!!....so I found it compelling. He was definitely affected by shit that happened in the house, and I believe him when he said that George's involvement in the occult really aroused whatever was there, so soon after the horrific 6 murders. And I lean to believe most of his other claims. But the tail-end of some of his outbursts, ending with a hard steely, bring-it-on look - I think he was doing for drama, imo, because Daniel knew no one could really refute him in the interviews, though they (the director Eric and Laura DiDio) tried a little here and there. Even so, with my interest in this, I watched it about 3 times...it's very rewatchable for me - again, an angry man on screen always seems to work, and the director Eric just moved things right along. And Daniel is obviously a wounded kid of divorce, which is painful to witness (I am too), and ultimately, Daniel's pain manifests and he becomes simmering or very explosive...(his brother, Chris less so). ....but if you have any idea, why did Daniel keep his last name as Lutz? Also what did you think of this documentary if you saw it?
Indeed; this sequence was a little ridiculous, attempting to show and "explain" the physical possession of Sonny's body -- in my opinion, it's not something that's supposed to be shown, as William Friedkin understood so expertly when he shot The Exorcist. There's also a moment in The Conjuring where we see Lili Taylor's character being "taken over" by the witch demon, Bathsheba (the story was based on a real case investigated by the Warrens in Rhode Island), and this reminded me of the possession sequence in Amityville II.Magner is so unsung. He's f*cking believable and compelling in every scene (except when he screams in the green lighting and the house freaks out).
Just balls out acting: "go away damned bitch" was a shocker as he was manifesting/suffering, and being on the stairs from POV of the demon, his simmering birthday party at the dinner table, avoiding the priest, attacking the priest...but again, that jail cell scene (though the set looked so staged), though, was about the best that showed a lot of range in his Sonny character and the actor: confusion, mockery, possession, pain, physical attacking, and inside religious knowledge ... yet ultimately, pathos.
You are right, Adam, afterwards Magner did seem to age more than expected. Great pictures you added...I've seen them, & think they average around 2010-2015-ish. I'm sure he's been asked a million times why he left acting and what career choice he changed to. But I just can't find his answer...? Amityville II was very, very negatively received by critics - really bad. And that could have damaged his career at the time despite this strong, leading role. His subsequent small role in Firestarter is virtually forgettable - sad. Maybe he had a bad agent, too. Maybe he went into real estate? I've always wanted to know. It's all sad, b/c he showed a lot of promise in a very demanding, gutsy role. .....Quinton Tarantino (who liked this film a lot!) to the rescue? And then there is the beautifully haunting but tragic, then turning into menacing orchestral music ♫♪ - all in a few bars -that no one gives credit.
Yet honestly, there is a lot to bitch about the film, and I get it. Here is a wretched if condescending review, a lot of elements one can't deny, though some I disagree with ...just so unknowing home theater forum folks know this is NOT a liked film:
Amityville II: The Possession (1982) - Movie Review
Amityville II: The Possession - Movie review by film critic Tim Braytonwww.alternateending.com
And I wasn't complaining about you mentioning the time-period presentation of the film at all, just adding to it (not to mention Trica's totally `82s valley girl dress at the birthday party, the still-cool poster of Deborah Harry) - in fact, I think it's an interesting point to the film: Why wasn't it set in 1974..etc Good discussion about "marketing" a horror film at that time.
Your background is fantastic as you did a deeper dive into the history and living so close to the place....wow. And knowing folks close to each family - wow! Great to read about that. In the last year or so, I discovered an interview with a guy who was a friend of one of the DeFeo's as a boy. Regarding the whole story of the "Red Room" in the basement behind the stairs - he and one of the sons were friends, and were bored, and the father just gave them some paint and said they could paint that room red - pretty simple! And it blew up into this other gateway to hell thing. Hmm.... Yes, I am a fan...not the smartest though LOL - you are more advanced than myself. So, Adam:
* I also read 1979's "Murder in Amityville" by Hans Holzer ...back in the 1990s, and I thought it was either genuinely compelling and closer to the truth or sometimes amped-up, misguided bullshit. It seemed hot or cold to me....it's been so long, i can't think of examples, but that was the impressions I had. But I should read it again. I remember his daughter did an audio commentary as you mentioned (and reviews said she was not very good), though I haven't listened to it. What was most compelling about it to you?
* with "High Hopes: The Amityville Murders" - I will confess that the prosecuting attorney, Gerard Sullivan, I believe was very one-sided about nailing R DeFeo Jr. and he basically did. But his book brought up a lot of elements from the trial - I thought a lot of factual elements. A huge element was Sullivan's claim that DeFeo Jr really really really wanted the insurance policy and didn't want to share it with any of the family - and being narcisstic and regularly under the influence, basically let it rip one night & killed them all.... Though it's such a profoundly catastrophic thing to do, it's hard for me to believe there wasn't some kind of evil influence, too, that Sullivan ignored. been a long time since I read it, but that was my impression. So why do you only consider it "interesting?" Is it too one-sided? I think he dismisses supernatural, because it was a legal court case...and maybe that was unrealistic?
,* tried to watch R Defeo Jr. in interviews on Youtube...and he's so narcissistic / sociopathic, I just can't finish his interviews. It's just like trying to watch Diane Downs in interviews. uggh...can't get through em. Am I missing something here?
* Attorney William Weber admittedly is a good speaker at first....but the more you listen to him and study him, he becomes so discredited and crooked, it's hard to watch him in interviews or give much credence to his claims, even if he was close to some of the people. Uggh. I'm acquaintances Chris Lutz (actually Quaratino) on Facebook, and he said some vicious things about Weber's recent death.
* I was at Barnes and Nobles one day, (back in the 1990s again) and came across Stephen Kaplan and his wife's book (forgot the title, but a black and white cover with them in front of the house). Chronicling items published against the Lutz claims and how the Lutz were damaging the fragile credibility of (1970s) burgeoning paranormal studies in academia and society (ie becoming ultimately preternatural). But I have to say, the more I read through Kaplan's book, the more hysterical and over the top resentful he became, which it seemed like it came from him being repeatedly rejected, ignored and mostly denied access to folks involved in Amityville. Well, join the crowd, dumbass. So his resentment charged forth and aimed to discredit the Lutz's and their affiliates right and left, with his "mission" to protect parapsychology. ...yeah. Though I believe he brought out some evidence to his claims, but after reading more and more.... I just wanted to yell at him to: get a life! I got tired of his massively negative claims...he just seemed resentful - a cry baby. Jealous. Sour grapes. Uggh. Even if he was validated, it was sickening. If you are humble, this jealous type vibe, doesn't shine through. Though, again, this was years and years ago when I read this....so these were my impressions. Maybe if I read it again today, I'd do a 180! LOL Anyway, do you think I'm off? What were your thoughts of him and his claims that you recall?
* Did you see 2012's "My Amityville Horror" with Daniel Lutz? An angry man always plays pretty well on screen, imo. I.E.: the VERY intense Daniel Lutz of today!!!....so I found it compelling. He was definitely affected by shit that happened in the house, and I believe him when he said that George's involvement in the occult really aroused whatever was there, so soon after the horrific 6 murders. And I lean to believe most of his other claims. But the tail-end of some of his outbursts, ending with a hard steely, bring-it-on look - I think he was doing for drama, imo, because Daniel knew no one could really refute him in the interviews, though they (the director Eric and Laura DiDio) tried a little here and there. Even so, with my interest in this, I watched it about 3 times...it's very rewatchable for me - again, an angry man on screen always seems to work, and the director Eric just moved things right along. And Daniel is obviously a wounded kid of divorce, which is painful to witness (I am too), and ultimately, Daniel's pain manifests and he becomes simmering or very explosive...(his brother, Chris less so). ....but if you have any idea, why did Daniel keep his last name as Lutz? Also what did you think of this documentary if you saw it?
Probably almost ten years ago now, Quentin Tarantino named Amityville II as one of his top 50 sequels in an interview in an issue of Video Watchdog (arguably the greatest genre magazine ever produced).Not sure who Rob Ager is but check out number 18 in his top 25 horror films:
I actually don't see it on that list in the link...Probably almost ten years ago now, Quentin Tarantino named Amityville II as one of his top 50 sequels in an interview in an issue of Video Watchdog (arguably the greatest genre magazine ever produced).
EDIT: It was Video Watchdog #172 from January/February 2013. Back issues still available for $15 here: http://www.videowatchdog.com/home/issues.htm#170
If you have to scroll down, it's issue 172 with a drawing of Tarantino on the cover. The interview/list itself isn't on there, I just posted the link to where someone can purchase the issue.I actually don't see it on that list in the link...
I'm looking at issue 172 -- it's not on that list of films mentioned in the little box.If you have to scroll down, it's issue 172 with a drawing of Tarantino on the cover. The interview/list itself isn't on there, I just posted the link to where someone can purchase the issue.
I guess it's not listed individually in the index since it's just part of Tarantino's list. Since he covers 50 movies, it's not an in depth discussion of the movie so that may also be why they don't list it individually.I'm looking at issue 172 -- it's not on that list of films mentioned in the little box.
But there are a ton of other titles listed there, is my point...Amityville II should be somewhere in the beginning, as it's going in alphabetic order...I guess it's not listed individually in the index since it's just part of Tarantino's list. Since he covers 50 movies, it's not an in depth discussion of the movie so that may also be why they don't list it individually.
Here it is. #50 out of 50.But there are a ton of other titles listed there, is my point...Amityville II should be somewhere in the beginning, as it's going in alphabetic order...
At any rate, I take your word for it, as I recall something about him really digging that film...
LOL...LOL....I'd absolutely love to do the commentary with you on a 4K release of the title....Adam, if a making-of Amityville II: The Possession ever needed a new featurette for a future (4K?) release, I think it would be like crack cocaine for you and I to undertake that project. ….in the style of Laurent Bouzereau .....
Just for fun to respond to your responses, though I admit I fail to phrase my prose as well as you :
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- 1 The physical possession of Sonny’s body - not seen….yep, ironically I think it would have been more effective, and fires up the imagination, like “The Exorcist;” it would work in the narrative. To be honest, Adam, I’d never thought of that, but I think you are right. Laughed hard at you mentioning bed turning “PERFECTLY” lol…because it did – obviously on a contraption, and unfortunately looked circus-like - all that house activity....just....didn't.....work. A classic case of: less is more, regarding his actually possession ….like The Conjuring’s possession….good point. With Sonny’s expanding head during the climax I also thought of The Beast Within - picture following:
2 The pre-possession sequences were incredibly spooky and well filmed of Sonny walk around by himself in the house…trying to understand - really some of the best parts of the film, and all haunted house films. That chair being thrown at him was a great jump scare for the audience, but, unfortunately, I will say that Magner seemed a little too prepared for it – not too shocked as he should have been. The soft demonic laughter x2….so wicked....that was successful examples of "less is more" moments. All that you said….so true.
Staged-like jail cell…. Adam, I mean the set itself – to me it looks like a set - it’s too clean, the floor, the walls, just kind of weak, the sliding jail door’s bars look too clean, and too carefully lit. the cell didn’t feel real to me. It doesn’t look heavy (brick and steele), worn, genuinely fatigued…..after a few times seeing the film, then seeing it on DVD for the first time where it was in widescreen and very very clear, I noticed this.
Well, as a male watching that film, I was really only interested in ONE shot.....Two other examples of unrealistic sets, despite decent budgets are 1) Basic Instinct’s interrogation scene of Stone – looked great, but it was authentically outrageous to have such a glamorous room with that kind of alluring, blue lighting and large size etc….but caught up in the moment of the film, it strangely works
John Carpenter’s 1998 Vampires…one of the opening scenes they go to an “abandoned” church or similar house like structure. If you look closely, the entire set looks very well-built with good bones and nothing sagging, but it’s insanely weather fatigued as if to look old….but all it’s angles look too good – the crew who built it were too good with the leveling measurements. Took me out of the moment instantly - it looked Hollywood. Not to mention James Woods was like casting Jerry Seinfeld – shitty casting imo.
Fun to know that the jail cell scene is one of your favorite exchanges in a horror film. Me too. If one isn’t partying it up and laughing at the film’s dramatics (like some party crowds did), but honestly caught up in the film by that point, it is fucking strong. Yes, the acid licking too was a contemptuous surprise. Yes, one of mine as well – again, great, totally unsung acting range by Magner throughout this scene…and genuinely sad at the end of him looking at the pictures – “the devil comes to kill steal and destroy” indeed. I was also going to mention the end when manifesting Sonny says, “You want to dominate like your Bishops and more…I can give it to you Adamsky.” Just a very powerful temptation – very targeted, likely envious secret desire of Adamsky.… just like evil tries to do.
- Many strong, desperate, alarming scenes in this gutsy film…. Again, for the non-partying crowd. I’m trying to think of another exchange in horror. Yes, that Exorcist one is strong.
- 5 Yeah the “I DO WHAT I WANT!!” Contempt….!! And that cartoonish graphic of Magner you discovered …haha, I’ve never seen it. Thanks for posting that – it’s fun. Magner himself would probably get a kick out of it!
I mention the film isn’t well liked for other folks who come onto this forum and don’t like the film and want to blast us in the future. Or for newbies who get excited about all our excitement, then may go down the path of having really high expectations before watching the film, glossing over some of our reservations. Does that make sense?
My intent is to briefly, at one time, recognize the negative criticism toward the film, which is substantial, and get it over with… .really not much more than that. You’re right that the rest of us have come onto this shared forum, since we’ve already made our mind up liking the film, but…just thinking of the future, and clearly covering the point. I’m probably like you, in that the film is semi-nostalgic from my childhood as well….something about it I like. Though, go ahead and laugh, but I don’t like to watch the murders – grieves me too much – I skip through that. Probably makes me sound like a horror hypocrite, but I don’t care.
The Doors poster changing….I did notice that, but kind of forgot about it. Always thought it was strange. View attachment 80646
The ceiling in Sonny’s room. Well, the ceiling just isn’t seen otherwise, is it in the film?….Sonny's room's side walls are rafters that don’t look like they don’t even have insulation throughout the film. But I suppose the filmed room in that ending scene was larger than the room used primarily in the film – you are probably right. here is a shot of the side rafters:
Interesting about Murder in Amityville…that’s right. He dug into the Native American history in the past on the film. I think this book was used as somewhat reference material for the film itself.
Butch DeFeo’s act of murder….after you mention that with the LSD…I think you are very likely right since it opens our senses to other things, and could have put him in a “state” and or connected him with evil at the same time. And, yes, in interviews DeFeo Jr bigtime likes the attention…and seems to lack remorse!!!…I just can’t get through it.
- 11 If Dawn was part of the murder, I think her participation would have been discovered quickly. The fact that it’s been brought up sometime in late 2000 reveals another “change” to the story, and traditionally this is a result of a lie – i.e. “the story keeps changing.” And then Dawn is also face down and shot like the rest of the family… So I say bullshit. That’s my thinking, I certainly don’t know, but those three elements lead me to believe Dawn was not involved in the murders. I could be wrong! I know there is a documentary on this on Youtube. Uggh.
I haven’t seen the Weber interviews on the History Channel documentaries. I do have the DVD The Amityville Horror Collection DVD box set (I think it’s from 2005), but I don’t remember this featurette at all on the DVD with Weber - maybe he was in a few brief clips. Anyway, I think your assessment of him is true based on my past research about him.
Kaplan….is just one of the most depressing people to study because of all you said and so tragic ultimately toward himself. Insane bitterness. Definitely deranged from it, as you said (and I think envy from being ostracized). Tragic. Uggh.
- 14 Laura DiDio…..I would argue she was both reasonably shrewd and ambitious about the Lutz story, yet I also believe that she cared about Kathy and the kids more than she needed to, and recognized George as a dominating jerk. Always felt like she embraced ALL of experience (the notoriety for herself, the family, the house’s history and current drama, Ed and Lorraine), and I also think she had a lot of natural, reporter instincts. I don’t know a lot about her, but always liked her enough. She's very good in the 2012 film following:
- View attachment 80649
Adam, I hope you soon watch 2012’s My Amityville Horror. It moves right along and is a good watch. It’s been uploaded to Youtube a few times…and taken down! haha
I recently read the infamous Amityville Horror book (novel? Nonfiction? LOL) again, right after watching 2012’s My Amityville Horror, and holy cow….I think Danny Lutz is right: the story was all about George – that book has so much “George” dominating it. Gave the book a completely different, and I believe, insightful revelation after watching 2012’s My Amityville Horror. Of all the people in the story, I really liked Kathy. View attachment 80651
- I felt like Kathy got pushed around a lot and had immense pressure on her, but really loved her kids, and half killed herself to make it work with George. My heart goes out to her.
- 17 Are we taking this all too seriously? I’m sure the rest of the world might laugh at us ...but oh well.
That's not the original list I was referring to, which was provided earlier; I merely meant that I didn't see the title in that box for the issue that supposedly covers it.Here it is. #50 out of 50.
Quentin Tarantino's Top 50 Favorite Sequels
As listed in Video Watchdog issue no. 72. Per his personal rules, these are only sequels so anything other than a part II does not count (hence the absence of The Good, The Bad and the Ugly). Some rules are bent: for example Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man is the fifth film in the Frankenstein...letterboxd.com
I’m aware of that. That original list was of reviews in that issue (see next post), not Tarantino’s top 50. Which is why I supplied a link to his actual list.That's not the original list I was referring to, which was provided earlier; I merely meant that I didn't see the title in that box for the issue that supposedly covers it.