American Graffiti Blu-ray DNR issues? (1 Viewer)

[lukejosephchung]

Thanks, Mr. Harris...I was merely being rhetorical!!!

 

[Scott Calvert]

Having seen this disc I stand by my initial opinion. Did I enjoy watching American Graffiti again? Absolutely. Is the bluray an order of magnitude better than the DVD? Yes. Will most people (ie "civilians") be satisfied? Probably. Has there been copious tinkering in the video realm? IMO, absolutely yes. Some scenes exhibit heavy edge enhancement, others not so much. Some scenes in low light conditions exhibit the chunky, stained-glass window grain effect I mentioned earlier which can be seen in the screenshots. Some scenes had practically no grain at all, as well as practically no detail at all. Very inconsistent.

If this were a Sony, Fox, or MGM product we would be seeing a very different transfer, IMO. If I were to take a guess, an accurate 4K transfer with little finagling after the fact would have most people crying foul.

 

[Robert Harris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Calvert
Having seen this disc I stand by my initial opinion. Did I enjoy watching American Graffiti again? Absolutely. Is the bluray an order of magnitude better than the DVD? Yes. Will most people (ie "civilians") be satisfied? Probably. Has there been copious tinkering in the video realm? IMO, absolutely yes. Some scenes exhibit heavy edge enhancement, others not so much. Some scenes in low light conditions exhibit the chunky, stained-glass window grain effect I mentioned earlier which can be seen in the screenshots. Some scenes had practically no grain at all, as well as practically no detail at all. Very inconsistent.

If this were a Sony, Fox, or MGM product we would be seeing a very different transfer, IMO. If I were to take a guess, an accurate 4K transfer with little finagling after the fact would have most people crying foul.

I'll have another look. Can you please point me toward some sections that seem problematic by timecode?

RAH

 

[Scott Calvert]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris
Quote:

I'll have another look. Can you please point me toward some sections that seem problematic by timecode?

RAH

Sure. I will take a look and post later this evening.

 

[Robert Harris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Calvert
Sure. I will take a look and post later this evening.

Appreciated. When I screen a disc, I don't always view the entire film, as time usually does not allow. I never view less than 30 minutes or so, various sequences, day, night, effects, etc.

In the final analysis, the important point is accuracy, and if something has been misread, it needs to be corrected. The most important entity here is the consumer.

RAH

 

[Scott Calvert]

02:05 Ron's shirt - strange outline (edge enhancement?)
approx 07:00-09:00 Mels Diner - windows, orange walls, everything really - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain, edge enhancement (outlines around shirts)
14:40 Milner cruising talking to girl - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain.
15:18 Milner and Mackenzie Phillips cruising - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain
approx 19:50-21:00 Garils bathroom/boys bathroom - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain, edge enhancement
49:00 Toad in convenience store - edge enhancement around shirts in some shots
53:45 sitting on the Pharoes car - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain
01:03:00 Kurt and Pharoes getting out of car - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain
01:21:45 - Ron and waitress in diner - edge enhancement around shirts

Really, the "grain" I mentioned several times above is prevalent throughout the movie. It just doesn't look natural. It looks like "Universal bluray grain"

Sitting 12-15 feet away from a 55 inch set it looks like a very nice TV image. It just falls apart upon closer inspection.

 

[Robert Harris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Calvert
02:05 Ron's shirt - strange outline (edge enhancement?)
approx 07:00-09:00 Mels Diner - windows, orange walls, everything really - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain, edge enhancement (outlines around shirts)
14:40 Milner cruising talking to girl - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain.
15:18 Milner and Mackenzie Phillips cruising - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain
approx 19:50-21:00 Garils bathroom/boys bathroom - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain, edge enhancement
49:00 Toad in convenience store - edge enhancement around shirts in some shots
53:45 sitting on the Pharoes car - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain
01:03:00 Kurt and Pharoes getting out of car - wierd, stained-glass window looking grain
01:21:45 - Ron and waitress in diner - edge enhancement around shirts

Really, the "grain" I mentioned several times above is prevalent throughout the movie. It just doesn't look natural. It looks like "Universal bluray grain"

Sitting 12-15 feet away from a 55 inch set it looks like a very nice TV image. It just falls apart upon closer inspection.

I understand what you're referencing. The "stained-glass" look is an interesting way of putting it.

There is definitely a bit of sharpening in place. Some sharpening is,in many cases, a normal scanner setting, and not "dialed in" at a later point during image processing. I have no idea what the case was here, but it was unnecessary. Get up close, and one can see it, but from a normal viewing distance, it neither adds nor detracts. It just is.

Do I wish it weren't?

Yes. As up close, it adds something that need not be a part of the image.

But considering the studio involved, and not to make excuses for them, this is a very nice transfer.

RAH

 

[Scott Calvert]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris
Quote:
I understand what you're referencing. The "stained-glass" look is an interesting way of putting it.

I couldn't think of a better way to describe it. For those scratching their heads wondering what I'm talking about, the left part of this image is a good example of the kind of look I'm referencing:

 

[Joe Karlosi]

I watched the Blu-ray and was bugged by grain (not a grain fan here). I especially noticed it in the girl's bathroom scene, and during the whole first exchange when Dreyfuss is confronted by the Pharoahs for sitting on their car; it is especially intrusive right during the shot from the rear of their car when Dreyfuss is forced to take a ride with them while two members argue over who gets to ride "shotgun". Now, this is what I mean when I say 'Grain Is A Pain'. But it appears that Scott refers to this as "stained-glass window grain". Some of the darker night shots look smooth and nice; others are annoyingly grainy. Depending on the lighting levels, I suppose?

One other thing I didn't care for were the opening credits... the color in the lettering for the titles was not right to me, especially when compared to the DVD. Not vibrant and "orange" enough .... kind of muted down to yellow and almost blended in with the background.

Edge Enhancement? I still can't notice this, and I'm glad I don't since it seems to distract so many people. I have the EE control OFF on my HDTV, so this may help...

 

[Scott Calvert]

I want to make it clear that I am not complaining that American Graffiti is a grainy film. It is. I just don't like the way it was handled in the transfer.

 

[Scott Calvert]

Originally Posted by Joe Karlosi
Edge Enhancement? I still can't notice this, and I'm glad I don't since it seems to distract so many people. I have the EE control OFF on my HDTV, so this may help...

Look at the scene of the race at the end of the film. There is a forcefield around everything, telephone poles, people, basically any high-contrast edge.

 

[Kevin EK]

I think this thread has pretty much come full circle at this point. There are some issues here, but not to a level that people find to be a major problem. The posted review reflects this, and Mr. Harris' assessment concurs. It's nice to know that people continue to care about this film to this extent. I really do think it's George Lucas' most personal and most artistic statement, and I'm glad he took the time to get involved with this release. Now that more people are getting copies, I hope we'll hear more from the posters here about this title.

 

[Gordon McMurphy]

German PAL DVD vs USA BLU-RAY (mouse over to compare)
American Graffiti is one of my favourite films. One of the reasons that I love it is the way it was shot on my favourite format, 2-perf Techniscope at 2.35:1. For years I have hoped to see an original Technicolor dye-transfer print but they no longer seem to be out there. Has anyone here seen it in 35mm in the last 10-15 years?
I always liked the original DVD but the comparison above really surprised me*. The liquor store scene shows how soft the DVD is. But as many of you have said, a Blu being "better than the DVD" is not a good standard - 1080p vs. 480p NTSC (or 576p PAL) just as comparing DVD to VHS was a red herring. But I absorbed the Blu of Graffiti two weeks ago and it felt amazing. I didn't scrutinize the image but I never saw something that bothered me. However, I agree that it is a fudgy, less-than-optimal transfer. I paid $12 for my copy to be shipped to my Scottish Castle Greyskull so I don't feel bad about it. As I say, I'd love to see it on a HUGE screen in 35mm or 4K but as it is on Blu on my idiot box, it feels good as I watch it. Maybe in 2013 we'll see a flawless image, but the world wil have ended by then so why worry?
*That site is maintained and supported by highly knowledgeable Germans; be sure to check out their recent MGM Blu vs the Italian Blu of The Good the Bad and the Ugly, btw)

 

[Sam Favate]

After months on my "to-see" shelf, I popped this in tonight. I don't have issues with the transfer, looks good to me. But why is it that every blu-ray I own from Universal takes a really long time to load? This must have taken 12 minutes tonight. A real pain in the ass. What's more, every Universal BD has the same menu design, which is lame, not to mention features that I'll never, ever use.

I've decided that hereon out, I probably don't need to upgrade from DVD if the blu-ray is from Universal. It's just stunning to me how inferior their products are in comparison to the other studios.

 

[Techman707]

American Graffiti is one of my favourite films. One of the reasons that I love it is the way it was shot on my favourite format, 2-perf Techniscope at 2.35:1. For years I have hoped to see an original Technicolor dye-transfer print but they no longer seem to be out there. Has anyone here seen it in 35mm in the last 10-15 years?

You're looking for a Technicolor IB print made in the last 10-15 years? And you said "but they no longer seem to be out there." I'm curious if you EVER saw one from the initial run?
I can tell you that I ran "American Graffiti" when it first came out in 1973. While it's possible that I could be mistaken (not very likely ) to the best of my recollection the release print of "American Graffiti" (4 track mag) that I ran was on Eastman stock and was NOT a Technicolor IB print. However, the print was still made by Technicolor. The last Technicolor IB prints of a new film that I ever ran was "The Godfather II" and a loser called "3 Tough Guys" (aka "Tough Guys"), both in 1974. I know the print of "3 Tough Guys" was made in Italy and I believe "Godfather II" was also made there . Technicolor had already stopped making dye prints here in the U.S. While I'm aware that they were still making IB prints here in 1973 when "American Graffiti" came out, I can't account for why the print of "Graffiti" would have been made on Eastman stock. One possible reason could be that at the time, Universal thought the film would be a loser and it was cheaper to make Eastman prints when making a lower number of release prints, as opposed to Technicolor's process, which becomes cheaper with higher volume. If there are Technicolor IB prints that were made, they must have made them AFTER the film became a hit.
Although I was no longer working anymore at the time, I was told that Technicolor had started to make dye prints again, but, it was only for a short period of time beginning around 1997, and was mainly for archival purposes, not release prints. While I doubt if they would have made prints of "American Graffiti" at that time, it's possible since the film was on the AFI's 100 list.
Back in the late 60s there were many movies that were filmed in Techniscope. While some looked sharp, most always seemed to have a very grainy look, which obviously came from the Eastman negative and not a result of the Technicolor IB process. Most, if not all, of the Techniscope films from the mid 60's on were Technicolor IB release prints. Some of the films that I recall running that were made in Techniscope were; "Once upon a Time in the West" , "Your Turn to Die", "Counterpoint" and "Tobruk". There were MANY more at the time, but I just don't remember anymore these days. We used to call them "poor mans Cinemascope" because of the grainy look.

 

[Dr Griffin]

What is worse, original grain structure or digitally added edge halos? The film will already look better than a SD transfer because of the higher resolution of the HD transfer . I don't understand the urge to push this by smearing/smoothing the original element of grain and replacing it with a digitally induced artifact of edge halos due to that process. They are very apparent on AG especially in scenes with a sky background. It is ridiculous. A man (George Lucas) who wanted to expand the possibilities of sound in movies so much so that he developed THX, does not seem to care how some of his films look. I don't recall seeing edge halos when I saw AG in the theaters.