What's new

AMC A-List & other theater subscriptions (2 Viewers)

Malcolm R

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2002
Messages
25,139
Real Name
Malcolm
I'm going to look into this to see about theaters in my area that participate. Now that I live in Chicago I miss the Marcus Theaters' of Wisconsin and their $5 Tuesday movies.
If the program is being used via a Visa/MC-branded credit/debit card, there's nothing for the theater to "participate" in. As long as your theater accepts credit cards, they would have to honor the card.

The issue is later, when MP has run through all its capital, and tries to get the theaters to subsidize a reduced ticket price. They will be loathe to give up their already small margin on ticket prices.

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion. For years, I've read that theater owners make their REAL money in concessions. If someone is going to the theater 70 times a year instead of 7, there is 10 times the opportunity to sell the concessions, which supposedly is their real revenue. Am I missing something here?
That's why popcorn costs $9 and a drink costs $6: the studios take most of the ticket money. That's why I have no issue with paying for concessions at the theater. They need to make money somehow to maintain their facility and equipment.
 

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
26,271
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
To elaborate on Malcolm's point, the box office splits are nowhere near equal these days. It's different with each film, but in general, the split is on a sliding scale that heavily favors the studios in opening weeks. For instance, the first week split might be 90%/10% in favor of the studio, and then that might mildly decrease to 80%/20% in the second week. (I've heard it can be even more unfavorable for really high profile new release titles.) Since almost every release is now frontloaded, where they make the majority of their money in the first two weeks, the end result is that the theater chain is getting almost nothing from the box office.

The issue is later, when MP has run through all its capital, and tries to get the theaters to subsidize a reduced ticket price. They will be loathe to give up their already small margin on ticket prices.

I'm not sure what incentive AMC, to pick a chain, has to sign on to support this after MP uses up their capital investment. Where I live, AMC gets $16.50 for a single 2D ticket. That means that they will lose money on each and every MP customer, if they are footing the bill themselves. Nevermind the losses on customers going for repeat business, but just that this pass costs less than a single ticket. If I'm walking up to the box office to buy a ticket, and I see that I can spend $16.50 there, or that I can simply download an app and pay $10 for the same ticket right on the spot, I'm probably more likely to get the app. So, now the ticket isn't worth $16.50 anymore. So maybe longterm, the theater concedes that point, and lowers the price to $10. Now, the next customer who visits might say, "Well, if the pass is $10 for unlimited movies, why should a single movie be only $10?" Or, they might see that both items are the same price, and purchase a pass instead of a ticket. So, now a movie ticket is worth even less than $10. And it goes on and on.

The guys who are running MP previously came up with Netflix and Redbox. And those services aren't evil, but they did fundamentally change the industry. Before Netflix and Redbox, we had an entire physical infrastructure throughout the country where anyone could travel a relatively short distance, enter a physical location, pick out a title, and pay a small fee (about $3-5) to borrow that physical object for a period ranging on average from a day to a week. This resulted in profit for the studio, profit for the owners of the stores, and employment for a group of retail workers and managers. Netflix and Redbox changed all of that. Video rental stores are essentially extinct. And perhaps without thinking of the collateral damage, stores to purchase movies are on their way out too. Indeed, the entire popularity of films on disc has taken a nose dive. A single movie rental is viewed as something with almost no value, especially on physical media. Redbox charges $1 for something that used to cost about $4. These changes aren't sustainable, and we're seeing the effects of that now. Discs are harder to find in person. People are less interested in them. Because discs aren't selling, in addition to the infrastructure that supported them collapsing, we're also no longer getting quality special features most of the time, and the studios have pretty much cut back on their outreach programs to places like HTF; they are no longer interested in consumer feedback. So, OK, short term, the price of watching a movie is cheaper, but the damage done to the hobby from an enthusiast's point of view is far worse than the potential savings.

By inventing Netflix and Redbox, these guys didn't save DVD - they marginalized it and turned it into something less popular and less valuable. They revolutionized DVD rental by... killing DVD rental.

I'm concerned that, whether or not it's the intention, the same thing will happen with Moviepass and theaters. If the moviegoing experience is devalued to the point where theaters can't hope to break even from the pennies on the dollar they'll eventually be asked to accept, then that business is over. And if movie theaters go down, what's left of movies? Disney isn't going to spend $200 million a pop to make more Star Wars or Marvel movies if there's no avenue for the studio to recoup that investment. And, ok, if Star Wars is the exception and people are still happy to pay full price to see it on opening day and keeps its numbers, it'll still be the exception to the rule, and the theaters can't stay in business if they only have one profitable film per year.

I don't have a specific idea of exactly how this plays out, but it's hard for me to see how any of it is good, longterm.
 

EricSchulz

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Messages
5,580
Josh, without quoting your entire post, I agree. And the bigger problem for a film lover like me is the demise of the "little film" rental. Let's face it: Redbox has basically the latest/biggest titles. And for as much as I preferred the mom and pop video stores, Blockbuster put many (not all) out of business by offering 25 copies of the latest release. Then Netflix upped the game and Blockbuster dies. But now where do I watch indie/foreign/classics that I don't own? Luckily, Chicago has a couple great rental places left...
 

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
26,271
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
But now where do I watch indie/foreign/classics that I don't own?

Honestly... you probably stream it. Not on Netflix or another curated subscription service, but through an a la carte service like iTunes or Vudu. Those have basically replaced what the video store was in terms of one-time rentals.

Now, maybe this is how it needed to be in the end with disc rental -- if there's no technical need for people to possess a physical object to watch a movie, why keep it tied to the physical object? It's logical, it makes sense in a way, even if it goes against my collector instincts.

But if Moviepass displaces movie theaters the way that Netflix and Redbox first killed the video store, and then completely devalued the disc altogether, what replaces them? Where does Hollywood get the influx of cash needed to make their films? Do we no longer watch content together as a society, except on special occasions? For what it's worth, I don't think it's entirely the fault of Moviepass - theaters have been doing damage to themselves and their own industry for years. And in theory I should be for something that's good for customers. But I just don't see how this is sustainable, and if this succeeds in devaluing what a movie is worth to a point where the value of a movie is below what it costs to produce, what's the incentive to produce any more of them?

Put it this way - thanks to Moviepass, it's entirely possible that a future blockbuster that normally would have opened at $100+ million or $200+ million will open at only $50 million - same number of people in attendance, but due to the new accounting, each of those tickets doesn't get the studio much of anything. It seems possible that one day, a Star Wars or Marvel movie could open to sold out crowds but a tiny gross due to this new way of paying for tickets, and if that's the case, what incentive will Disney have to make the next film?
 

DavidJ

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2001
Messages
4,365
Real Name
David
While I question the longevity of their business plan and whether it's good movie theaters, I'm interested in checking it out. Evidently there are no theaters near me that are willing participants which is too bad. I will probably still try it.
 

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
26,271
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
That was my thinking too.

This whole thing is so much bigger than me. If the movie industry tanks because of this, it won't be because I signed up, and if the movie industry survives, it won't be because I didn't.

And prices at theaters, at least in NY, are out of control. In less than five years, an IMAX ticket went from under $20 to $27. There's nothing about the presentation that's justified that kind of hike, and that's way above inflation for the comparable time period. If asking the theaters to give me unlimited movies for $10 isn't fair, nor is the theaters asking patrons for $27 a ticket.
 

benbess

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
5,650
Real Name
Ben
Imho Movie Pass is going to burn through its capital and then go kaput. I personally doubt that this is going to change things like Netflix did. In the short run, if and when I ever get my card, and if and when it works, I'll try to go to a few extra movies courtesy of a foolish billionaire.
 

benbess

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
5,650
Real Name
Ben
Got my MoviePass card yesterday. Haven't yet had a chance to try it out, but maybe Saturday. I have downloaded the app to my phone.
 

TonyD

Who do we think I am?
Ambassador
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
24,241
Location
Gulf Coast
Real Name
Tony D.
I got my card yesterday.

On the website there previously was a page for those with a card who needed to activate it.
That page is no longer there and after you log in it just says use the app to manage you card.

On my app the card number is already there so I guess they activated it.
 

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
26,271
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
Mine arrived but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Actually a really packed September and October, I probably should have waited until November.
 

benbess

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
5,650
Real Name
Ben
It worked!++

Seems pretty amazing. The movie I saw is a good example of the value of this. I was curious about Mother!, but wasn't sure I wanted to see it enough to buy a ticket. But with this, why the heck not. It ended up that I felt very mixed about Mother!, but that's all the more reason to feel good about the low price. Normally I probably see one or two movies a month in the theater, but my guess is that now I'll be seeing two movies a week as long as this lasts. If I do actually see c. 8 movies a month, my price per film is going to be an amazingly low $1.25 for each one.

I have some theories for how Movie Pass might make this work for them financially in the long run, but for the first 2 years, if they even survive that long, they are likely to lose billions of dollars.
 
Last edited:

TonyD

Who do we think I am?
Ambassador
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
24,241
Location
Gulf Coast
Real Name
Tony D.
Also seeing Mother right now as my first test.

Probably in a theater that I will not go into again.
Screen is one of the tiny side room screens.

Room smells as if it hasn't been cleaned in years.
 

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
26,271
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
Appropos of nothing, last weekend I saw the Star Trek II revival (which wasn't eligible for MoviePass because it was a Fathom Event, even though it was actually cheaper than a normal ticket at that theater) and I wasn't impressed with both the presentation provided by Fathom, as well as the actual physical auditorium. It was a stark reminder about why, for the past five years, I generally only go to see movies on premium screens. It's not even that many of the "premium" screens are worth the surcharge, it's just that the non-premium ones are generally so poor that it's not even worth going.
 

Johnny Angell

Played With Dinosaurs Member
Senior HTF Member
Deceased Member
Joined
Dec 13, 1998
Messages
14,905
Location
Central Arkansas
Real Name
Johnny Angell
Appropos of nothing, last weekend I saw the Star Trek II revival (which wasn't eligible for MoviePass because it was a Fathom Event, even though it was actually cheaper than a normal ticket at that theater) and I wasn't impressed with both the presentation provided by Fathom, as well as the actual physical auditorium. It was a stark reminder about why, for the past five years, I generally only go to see movies on premium screens. It's not even that many of the "premium" screens are worth the surcharge, it's just that the non-premium ones are generally so poor that it's not even worth going.
I agree about a sub-par presentation by Fathom.
 

benbess

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
5,650
Real Name
Ben
A warning about Cinemark and MoviePass....Went today with a friend to a Cinemark theater to see IT, but the showing we could make happened to be an XD showing. Anyway, XD showings, even though they aren't 3D, are not included with MoviePass. Regular showings at Cinemark only.
 

Tino

Taken As Ballast
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 1999
Messages
23,565
Location
Metro NYC
Real Name
Valentino
It's regular showings at all theaters. No premium screens of any kind at all.

Still an unbelievable bargain. :thumbsup:
 

Tino

Taken As Ballast
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 1999
Messages
23,565
Location
Metro NYC
Real Name
Valentino
And AMC purchases also count towards rewards. It pretty much pays for itself.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,808
Messages
5,123,536
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
0
Top