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Am I the only one NOT buying TPM? (1 Viewer)

Jeff Ashforth

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quote: Absolutely NOT true for me. Subsequent SW films will do absolutely NOTHING to make TPM seem better (Jake Lloyd's "acting" will still be godawful, Jar Jar will still be annoying, the script will still be pathetically weak and include fart jokes, etc.). In fact, if the later films turn out to be better than TPM, they will only make it MORE obvious how bad TPM is. The idea that they will somehow magically "transform" the above mentioned flaws is ludicrous.[/quote]
I think it would be hard to make an argument that ANY Star Wars scripts were worthy of a screenwriting award. I'm sorry if one fart joke ruins an entire movie for you, I do remember the kids in the audience thinking it was funny.
You want bad acting? Try watching the scene in ROTJ where Luke tells Leia that she's his sister. "I know.....somehow, I've always known."
puke.gif
So she knew he was her brother but she still felt the need to make out with him in ESB to make Han jealous.
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I guess my point is that ALL of the films have their flaws. Some people can appreciate them warts and all and some cannot. I will wait until all of the films are released to pass judgement on them.
Bottom line: The movies haven't changed. We have.
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[Edited last by Jeff Ashforth on October 11, 2001 at 10:09 AM]
 

RobertR

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It's basically just a challenge to see who can plot the tightest course without running into a star or two.
Sounds suspiciously like an after-the-fact fanboy explanation to cover for a Lucas flub. :)
And it still doesn't wash. Han didn't say "I'm the best pilot who can plot the tightest course". He specifically said he had a fast ship (ie he was talking about the ship, NOT his piloting skill). "Fast" clearly implies "the ability to cover a given distance in the least amount of time". You would NEVER, for example, hear a pizza delivery boy boast that he figured out how to do his delivery route in the shortest distance. He would only talk about little TIME it took (ie how FAST he was).
Nice try, though.
 

tyler O

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Just piping in to say that I love episodes 4 and 5. 6 is pretty crappy, but it was beautifully outdone by episode 1. I have no desire for it unless I have to buy it as part of a super set put out by Mr. Lucas in order to get the non butchered originals... We shall see.
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DaveF

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At the risk of getting back on topic... :)
I too won't be buying TPM DVD. I saw the movie when it came out, and had fun, but it doesn't merit re-watching, for me. And I feel it's a poor companion for the original trilogy.
Now, getting safely back off-topic...
What I dislike about it, aside from not meeting 20 years of expectations :) was that it pandered to kids, rather than being a good kids / family movie. The original trilogy has three primary characters, of unknown ages, but around 16 - 24 yrs. In ways, they were adolescents, both child and adult. Because of that, it played well to both kids, adults, child-like adults, and mature kids :) TPM starred a dull, eight (or so) year old kid, which made it immediately less interesting to an adult, IMO. Likewise contrast Chewbacca to Jar Jar. Chewbacca was a full character. Funny, but also serious. We laughed with him. Fun for kids but not pandering. Jar Jar was just bumbling, mediocre 'physical' comedy - we laughed at him, not with him.
Orbiting at maximum velocity.
When I read that, I took it as meaning "orbiting at the maximum velocity possible" which is perfectly reasonable, if perhaps redundant.
And Star Wars is really science-fantasy; physical realism is less important than internal consistency. I'm sure it it's got internal contradictions, but on the whole it presents a universe with certain rules, and uses those as plot devices.
 

RobertR

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The movies haven't changed. We have.
I disagree. Since ESB, Lucas has progressively changed the
tone of the films from having an emphasis on heroic/fantasy/mythology into more and more of a marketing exercise catering to juvenile tastes and demographics, and emphasizing special effects at the expense of story and character development.
 

Bruce_S

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Sep 11, 2001
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I consider myself as a casual fan in the Star Wars world. I am not planning to buy TPM anytime soon. However, it will sell a bunch of dvds. I'm planning to wait another 6 years or so all of them to be release together. I see no need to re-purchase the presequel. My money can go toward other dvds until than. I saw the it twice when it was released, and plan to rent or borrow it from friends to give my home theatre a good workout...
bruce
 

Jerome Grate

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I hope I'm not repeating anything but it's tough to read through over 80 posts. I'm getting it yet after hearing the disappointing reviews so far, but with all these negative posts it almost appears to be a slap in the face to Lucasfilms and I assume Fox Video. Months and years ago the questions when it's comming out, will it sound as good as the LD was all over the place and with passion, how can Lucas do this to us etc., etc. Now, I'm not saying Lucasfilms don't deserve it, especially with the release, then re-realease and another re-release of the Star Wars saga, but now he has open the door and allowed at least one on DVD, the medium of choice and here we are posting "I'm Not Buying It". I understand that Fox is one of our readers here and I'm not saying kiss a** but perhaps a little more, let's say, appreciation for the release. Just my .02
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[Edited last by Jerome Grate on October 11, 2001 at 12:43 PM]
 

RobertR

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appreciation for the release
I'm getting the impression you indeed haven't read through the posts. I haven't read anything from anyone saying he won't buy the DVD because he "doesn't appreciate the release". We're saying we won't buy it because we don't care for the movie.
If you're saying THAT motivation is wrong, then you're in the position of saying that people should ALWAYS buy a DVD that took a lot of "hard work" to make, REGARDLESS of whether or not they like the movie.
 

Tom Ryan

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quote:
Sounds suspiciously like an after-the-fact fanboy explanation to cover for a Lucas flub.
And it still doesn't wash. Han didn't say "I'm the best pilot who can plot the tightest course". He specifically said he had a fast ship (ie he was talking about the ship, NOT his piloting skill). "Fast" clearly implies "the ability to cover a given distance in the least amount of time". You would NEVER, for example, hear a pizza delivery boy boast that he figured out how to do his delivery route in the shortest distance. He would only talk about little TIME it took (ie how FAST he was).
[/quote]
Maneuverability and control are a big part of what gives a ship its overall speed and flying ability. This also contributed to Han's low Kessel Run score. Han was also trying to dig for any notoriety his ship might have, to impress his would-be customer. Nice try yourself :).
quote:
And responding by saying "who cares about being consistent with the laws of physics? It's only scifi" is exactly the kind of thing that would make Jack roll his eyes and sigh.
[/quote]
The Star Wars films are adventure films, not scifi. They have a scifi setting. I already mentioned this. Adventure films are supposed to be taken with a sense of enjoyment and freedom. Scifi films are almost much more realistic, which lends itself to boredom (what can I say, I think I've fallen asleep during 2001 both times I tried to watch it....not that it was THAT boring, I was just extremely tired and the movie certainly did not hinder my rest).
-Tom
[Edited last by Tom Ryan on October 11, 2001 at 02:02 PM]
 

RobertR

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quote: Maneuverability and control are a big part of what gives a ship its overall speed and flying ability[/quote]
Sorry Tom, I'm not buying it. Stunt planes are very maneuverable. SR71s are FAST--much, much faster. But not as maneuverable.
Han said he had a FAST ship, not a maneuverable one.
I think it's much easier to simply say George blew it, than to invent a reason why he couldn't possibly be wrong. :)
quote: which lends itself to boredom (what can I say, I think I've fallen asleep during 2001 [/quote]
Yet another reason for the esteemed Mr. Briggs to sigh and roll his eyes....
By the way, even an adventure film should obey the laws of physics....
[Edited last by RobertR on October 11, 2001 at 02:48 PM]
 

Ricky Hustle

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One thing's for sure: It will become the biggest DVD hit of all time, surpassing such sales champs as The Matrix, Saving Private Ryan, et al. I just bet you.
Not a chance in hell, my friend. Snow White sold 1 million copies in a day. And the Disney masterpiece will maybe double the sales of TPM.
 

James D S

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The movies haven't changed. We have.
By that logic, we would have 'outgrown' the original trilogy. I haven't.
(Re: fart jokes - Don't forget the feces humor as well. Just as gutter.)
However, I do think that this disc has a great chance of eclipsing all other total sales. It's the world we live in...
 

Tom Ryan

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Sorry Tom, I'm not buying it. Stunt planes are very maneuverable. SR71s are FAST--much, much faster. But not as maneuverable.
Han said he had a FAST ship, not a maneuverable one.
I think it's much easier to simply say George blew it, than to invent a reason why he couldn't possibly be wrong.
Yet another reason for the esteemed Mr. Briggs to sigh and roll his eyes....
I stand by my statement that Han was pitching his ship as an overall exemplary example of flight capability, you can believe whatever you want.
By the way, even an adventure film should obey the laws of physics....
Unfortunately, when an adventure film is made it doesn't come with "the book of what RobertR says shouldn't happen in this film". There are plenty of flubs in plenty of adventure films, especially ones with scifi settings (practically every one of those has spaceships that make sounds you can hear in space), not to mention every other type of film.
-Tom
 

Tom Ryan

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Sorry Tom, I'm not buying it. Stunt planes are very maneuverable. SR71s are FAST--much, much faster. But not as maneuverable.
Han said he had a FAST ship, not a maneuverable one.
I think it's much easier to simply say George blew it, than to invent a reason why he couldn't possibly be wrong.
I stand by my statement that Han was pitching his ship as an overall exemplary example of flight capability, you can believe whatever you want.
Yet another reason for the esteemed Mr. Briggs to sigh and roll his eyes....
I would expect Briggs' eyes to be rolling down the hall by now! Unfortunately, even that won't stop 2001 from getting boring
wink.gif
.
-Tom
 

Jeff Ashforth

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I can only speak for myself, but the reason why I think the OT movies have held a place in my heart for so long (and why I can overlook their shortcomings) is the profound effect they had on my younger years.
I can still remember my first viewing of ESB, it was magical. This was back when most movie theaters only had one screen. This one had a 100' concave screen and they showed a beautiful 70mm print.
eek.gif

RobertR,
I can see where this is headed and I think we've treaded into a debate of the film's quality and that was not my intention. I'm quite sure you'll never be able to convince me to dislike the film, as I will not convince you to like it so let's agree to disagree.
I still believe that we are the ones that changed the most. I was 8 when I saw SW and 11 when I saw ESB. I think the 8 and 11 year olds of 1999 got the same thing out of TPM that we got from the OT.
I guess I should ask my dad if he liked the OT....
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"Historians of science have long said: A body of knowledge that does not fit in with prevailing ideas, will be ignored as if it does not exist, no matter how scientifically valid it is."
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The worst HT in America.
 

James D S

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PLENTY, PLENTY, PLENTY of adults enjoyed the original trilogy when they debuted. It's impact was universal. TPM is far more child-weighted. Far more.
 

RobertR

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quote: the reason why I think the OT movies have held a place in my heart for so long (and why I can overlook their shortcomings) is the profound effect they had on my younger years.[/quote]
Quite honestly, Jeff, the reason I suspect some people are willing to overlook (or even deny) TPM's significant flaws is out of a lingering affection for George Lucas because of the "profound effect" you mentioned. I'm not. Nothing Lucas did in the past (or what he may do in the future)changes what he failed to do in TPM.
quote: I can still remember my first viewing of ESB, it was magical. This was back when most movie theaters only had one screen. This one had a 100' concave screen and they showed a beautiful 70mm print.[/quote]
I had the same feeling, and I was an adult at the time. I think that disproves your apparent theory that it was only kids who found anything magical in the original films, and that it's only because we've changed that we don't like TPM as much. (EDIT: COMPLETELY agree with you, James).
I think it's much simpler: TPM isn't as good.
[Edited last by RobertR on October 11, 2001 at 06:00 PM]
 

Jack Briggs

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To add to what our friend RobertR is saying: when a spacecraft launches off the planet or transfers from one orbit to another (higher or lower), its speed determines the orbit--and the orbit determines its speed (faster at lower orbits, slower at higher orbits). If two spacecraft are in an identical orbit (as when the shuttle Orbiter or a Soyuz or Progress spacecraft docks with the ISS), their speeds are identical. Can't work any other way.
What have the laws of physics got to do with science fiction? Everything. For it to be science fiction, it must be plausible and consistent with science as it is understood at the time. (Science fiction--written or dramatized--that has simply been outdated by later scientific discoveries is still science fiction. But most of what we see in the movies that's passed off as "science fiction" is nothing more than fantasy. Therefore, 1950's Destination Moon, outdated though it may be, still qualifies as SF. Star Wars never did. But, of course, the Star Wars films are fantasy.)
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