Am I getting burned/Denon5800??? (1 Viewer)

[Phil Mays]

At my local audio shop I have reserved a Denon 5800 for about $2,900. After reading other threads I wonder if I am getting burned.

Here are my concerns with internet purchase.

1. Authorized dealer, or not.

2. Ship weight/cost for repairs, should it need it.

3. No relationship.

I am sold on the Denon product from previous experience and had actually decided to get the 5800 -vs- the 4802. I currently have a 7 month old Onkyo 797 but found that I wanted a little more.

Thanks for your input.

Phil

 

[Craig Woodhall]

Not to start the seperates/receiver debate but I definately wouldn't spend $3000 on a receiver.. You could get a nice pre-amp and a great amp that will be a lot better than the 5800.

 

[BobAlbano]

I would say that that is a little high. I think that I remember seeing in one of the posts that the 5800 were going for somewere in the 2400.00 range. If I were you I would do a search to check and make sure. Good luck as it is a great receiver.

 

[Todd Schnell]

Phil,
I think that is indeed too much for the 5800.
You should be able to find the 5803 for around that $3000 range.
Try to get your dealer to cut you a deal, or tell him forget about it would be my advise.
Good luck.

Todd

 

[Jim Noble]

Tweeter lists the 5800 for $1949.

I'm sure there are better internet prices.

 

[Ron-P]

Phil, get seperates for that amout of coin. I just added 3 Adcom amps and bi-amped my mains and center with them. The sound quality far exceeds that of a receiver.
Peace Out~

 

[Charles Gurganus]

Phil, you didn't know everybody was going to try and change your mind on the receiver did ya? I am a seperates type myself but it isn't for everyone. My biggest need for a prepro has always been bass management flexibility. The Denon doesn't have it! Have you considered the B&K 305/307 receivers. This processor actually has some very good BM flexibility and AT LEAST as good amps as the Denon.

When you say you want more than the Onkyo 797, does that mean power? Have you thought of just adding a good power amp to the Onkyo? That is a good step toward seperates but many find adding power amps to mid line receivers a good way to go. Also, are you looking for better 2 channel sound? No receiver will be GREAT at 2 channel. There are things you could do first, IMHO, before chunking the Onkyo.

 

[Phil Mays]

Thanks everyone for your input!!!

Several questions have come to mind since reading the reply's.

1. I have been to the Tweeter website but they do not list
specifics. Do you have to call for a quote?

2. On the seperates issue...I agree it would be
better....Ron, I think I read where you got a great
deal on your seperates. I do not understand bridging
for center channel, bi-amping, etc.. How many amps
would I need to get 5.1 (well at least 5).

3. How would seperates effect my a/c current as I have an
old farm house with 2 15 amp circuits to service all AV
equiptment. Wouldn't a recever use less amps/current.


I want more clean volume from music as I think I am getting enough on the HT side and I do like multi-channel music as I have good towers at all positions and a good center.

Again thanks for the input as this is a lot of coin to spend.

Phil

 

[Ron-P]

2. On the seperates issue...I agree it would be
better....Ron, I think I read where you got a great
deal on your seperates. I do not understand bridging
for center channel, bi-amping, etc.. How many amps
would I need to get 5.1 (well at least 5).

Bi-amping is very simple. My Adcom's are 2-channel stereo. What I did is use the pre-out from my receiver and connect a 'Y' splitter to that, then plug that into the Adcom's L and R inputs. Utilizing both channels of the amp. Then I run one set of speaker wires for the drivers and one set for the tweeters. As long as your speakers are bi-amp/wirable your good to go.
You could get away with only 3 stereo amps to start. One for your center channel, one for your mains and one for your surrounds. But, like myself, I just started with 3, one for each main and one for the center. I plan on adding one more stereo amp for the surrounds (they are not bi-ampable).
As for your circuits, you should be just fine. But, I would recommend upgrading those 15's to 20 amps. Just for the extra overhead. Although, I am running all my gear off one 20amp.
Peace Out~

 

[Craig Woodhall]

Phil,
your A/C situation would be fine, you could upgrade it if you want.. Like Ron said, he is running everything off a 20amp.... seps wouldn't use much more than your receiver.. you could simplify with just a 5 channel amp and a pre-amp.. Basically, instead of 1 box, you would have 2.. I have seen lots of posts about guys with the 5800 or higher looking for outboard amplification.. Save yourself the hassle of upgrading and do it right the first time.. Also, if ever you wanted to get new surround formats/different bass management/etc, you could sell your preamp for probably 75% of what you paid, buy a different one and keep your amp. Flexibility is part of the beauty of seperates, as well as they sound better than receivers.. (ouch!)

 

[Phil Mays]

I have always heard that the seperates sound MUCH better. In the past I passed this by my sound shop person and they seem to be stearing me towards the 5800. I sometimes wonder if they are simply pushing a product that they feel they must dump.

Again thanks for the input. I will start looking for a 5 channel or other type amps.

Phil

 

[Chu Gai]

Myself, I'll not get into the separates vs receiver issue. Both have their strong points and I'd not talk you out of a preference unless there were an over riding reason to. Confining myself to your inital questions on an internet purchace...

3. No relationship.

At least in my opinion, vastly overstated. I don't expect them to invite me to their gatherings nor do they come to mine. Personally, I don't enjoy paying for the privelage of a relationship.

In the end, if you're going with the Denon, you'll have to take a look at the bottom line as to how much you're saving. That includes factoring of taxes and shipping costs. If its a small differential I'd likely go locally. If it starts getting into the hundreds of dollars, that's quite a personal call.

You know, sometimes with a local place, if you're really sold on a particular item, like the 5800, and their price was $2900 but you've found it for $2400 on the web at an authorized place, you can look to bargain. Print it out. Bring it in. Tell him how much you'd love to do business with him but that $500 is a deal breaker. Tell him if he comes down to $2400 you'll buy it then and there. Likely he'll go for something like $2500. Bingo, no? Now, at least for me, that's a fun relationship to have!

By the way, what is it about your present system that you feel is lacking? Are you unable to play to adequate volumes or is it something else?

 

[Phil Mays]

Chu Gai,

The 797 does not have enough "juice" with music for my taste. I have debated (tormented) with seperates, a flagship receiver, or just amping the current 797. I have heard so much about true power. I have seen web sites ranking power for amps/receivers but never one for the 797.

I would love to simply amp my system with some used amps at a cheap price as I certainly do not want to spend more money on the system.

Basically, I want more juice. I do not have enough experience with this system to know if it has good HT processing or not but I do know what I want out of music.

Thanks for your comments.

Phil

 

[Kevin. W]

Basically, I want more juice

If thats all you want then spending $3000 on a 5800 is a waste of time. Picking up an extra amp to power the front soundstage will add new sounds that you never heard before. At the same time saving you loads of $$$. From a personal experience I added a Rotel RMB-1066 to my Denon 1801 and the change was amazing. The amps in receivers just can't match that in dedicated amps.

Kevin

 

[Alex Yang]

Craig, Ron,
I've been through the very same debate myself on separates vs. receivers almost picked up the AVM20, but GOT a great price on the 5803 for under $3000...
At around $3K for a receiver, please put together a BRAND NEW (NOT USED) Pre/Pro and 7 channel amp that would have all the same FEATURES of the DENON AVR5803... I tried and couldn't... The closest I got was Davis Labs Processor One (NOT OUT yet and the original price at $3K for it went out the door)...
Yes, I do understand that ULTIMATELY separates will sound better, BUT for the $$$ I spent on the DENON, I personally didn't mind sacrificing a bit of sound for BELL & WHISTLES like FULL COMPONENT VIDEO switching for THREE SOURCES, DPLII, DTS ES & EX, Dolby Digital Headphones, etc...
While the DENON AVR-5803 can't reach the pinnacle sound of separates at my audtion of them they sounded superb and came really REALLY close to SEPARATES!!!
So bottom line as a NEW DENON AVR-5803 owner (should be shipping any day now...) will I still switch to separates? Gladly BUT only if it can match the "FEATURE" set that the DENON is offering because in my opinion, the FEATURES justified my purchase more so than the sound did...
Again, I been "POURING" over all the threads for about THREE months before I pulled the trigger on the DENON AVR5803... I couldn't find anything to match it FEATURE for FEATURE in the separates field for around $3K... :frowning:
If you know of anything let me know, and I'll sell this puppy on EBAY in a heartbeat for separates at that price point...
Thanks in advance!
-Alex

 

[Alex Yang]

Phil,
Definately WAY overpriced, especially since the 5803 is out now... Check around...
-Alex

 

[Chu Gai]

Phil, before you drop the change see about arranging for an audition of something, whether its the Denon, or perhaps an external amp. Indeed as Ron points out, if your speakers are biampable that would be an intriguing thing to investigate. Unless its the 'effects' that really get to you, see about doing your comparision with all the bells and whistles out of the picture.

 

[Ron-P]

because in my opinion, the FEATURES justified my purchase more so than the sound did...

I am the opposite, I want the best sound possible. Sure it is taking me awhile to get it, but ever so slowly I want the best sound I can get with my budget. If features are more important, than you made the right decision.
Peace Out~

 

[Alex Yang]

Ron,
Call me greedy but I want BOTH!!! Features and Sound!!!
If I can find ANYTHING in the same price range NEW, I'll be more than happy to offload the DENON for the Separates in a heartbeat!
-Alex

 

[Phil Mays]

What type of amp(s) would anyone suggest and what should I be looking to pay (range).
I am like Alex Yang and have been looking and "thinking" for several months now and am close to being ready to purchase. To me $3,000 is a lot of money and I want it to be the right choice as I would like to keep this set-up for a few years before thinking about stepping up again, hopefully.
Phil