What's new

All You Need Is Cash: Beatles to Sony! (1 Viewer)

Lee Scoggins

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2001
Messages
6,395
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Real Name
Lee
John,

To answer your earlier question about people being unhappy with the sound quality of DVDA:

I and many audiophiles like reviewer Anthony Cordesman are quite disappointed with the sound. The early releases in particular were poor sonically. I believe, for instance, that the Steely Dan Two Against Nature was much worse than the CD. A closed in feel to the music, poor midrange dynamics, etc. plagued this release.

There have been some better recent releases, but it was a rocky start for the format.

Lee
 

Anthony Hom

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 24, 1999
Messages
890
I think we need to clear things up here.

The members of the Beatles were not against using their songs in commercials, just the original recordings. And the commercials had to be tasteful.

Harrison had no problem in making money by allowing his songs to be sung by someone else and used in commercials (he let Something also be used in a car ad).

It's pretty clear the reason the Beatles recordings are not being remastered for a number of reasons:

1) Too many hands involved. You have the group, EMI, the song publisher (now Sony)

2) The original tapes - they are being extra careful when letting them out of the vault. Already some of the tapes have been stolen (the From me to you session for one).

3) The current CDs, as average as they are, are selling well. EMI will not invest too much money to upgrade them if they cannot profit from the re-master (most of it going to Apple) and they will worry if they charge above the going rate for CD or DVD-A or SACD, they will be afraid they will not get expected returns on them. Also that fear of having "perfect recordings" of the Beatles out there might give them that silly fear of bootlegs and with file sharing....
 

Colin Jacobson

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
13,328
While five years might not feel like a long time in the life cycle of an entertainment format, look at the endless complaints in this forum because Star Wars or The Lion King isn't on DVD yet.

Back in the early eighties, the wait for the Beatles on CD seemed like an eternity.
Oh, I fully agree with that. I got into CDs at the very start of 1985, and it DID seem like the slightly 2+ years between then and the first Beatles CDs (excepting the aforementioned Japanese AR) was an eternity. I can still remember a CD magazine rant about how you could get nothing by the Beatles or the Stones officially in the US but everything Bowie'd ever done was out there. Ironically, by the end of 1987, the situation was reversed; the full Stones and Beatles catalogs were on the market, but most of Bowie's stuff had gone out of print.

Anyway, I didn't mention the relative brevity of the wait for Beatles CDs to argue anything - I did so mainly to accentuate how long we've waited for remasters. The seemingly-interminable delay in the 80s is now three times as long...
 

Tim Gerdes

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 1, 1999
Messages
353
Location
Trenton, NJ
Real Name
Tim Gerdes
The members of the Beatles were not against using their songs in commercials, just the original recordings. And the commercials had to be tasteful.

Harrison had no problem in making money by allowing his songs to be sung by someone else and used in commercials (he let Something also be used in a car ad).
This contradicts what I have seen attributed to the Fabs in print. Paul has been particularly vocal about not using the tunes to sell products -- an argument that helped to label him a hypocrite when he licensed the Buddy Holly songs he owns for use in ads.

I'm going to do a little bit more research to see what I can find out.

Yoko's another story. She's licensed just about anything she can that's been associated with John.
 

Anthony Hom

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 24, 1999
Messages
890
I'll say it again, they are against using their OWN recordings in commercials. Lately there have been Beatle tunes in commercials, for those that have noticed it. They are not so widespread because of the royalty cost, although George's songs may not command as high a fee as L-M catalog. Notice Getting Better and When I'm 64 are used, and they are Paul songs not sung by them.

I think if EMI had free reign (isn't EMI owned by Time-Warner now?) they would be re-mastering and making nicer packages, but I think it's Apple creating the bottleneck.

Maybe if Paul would see what a good re-packaging job that was done with the Beach Boys CDs, and compare to what the Beatles have, it might get him to push for better package and re-mastering.
 

Larry Geller

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 10, 2002
Messages
608
Maybe if Paul would see what a good re-packaging job that was done with the Beach Boys CDs, and compare to what the Beatles have, it might get him to push for better package and re-mastering.
I wouldn't hold my breath on this either, since Paul has not been able to get Capitol USA to relaese his OWN remasterings!

In 1993 Paul released remastered versions with bonus tracks for ALL of his albums from McCartney thru Flowers In The Dirt everywhere in the world EXCEPT the USA, where Capitol feels they are just fine with the original, horrible packages. Capitol has a long, miserable history of disrespecting the Beatles material since day one.
 

Tim Gerdes

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 1, 1999
Messages
353
Location
Trenton, NJ
Real Name
Tim Gerdes
I'll say it again, they are against using their OWN recordings in commercials. Lately there have been Beatle tunes in commercials, for those that have noticed it. They are not so widespread because of the royalty cost, although George's songs may not command as high a fee as L-M catalog. Notice Getting Better and When I'm 64 are used, and they are Paul songs not sung by them.
Sorry to continually sidetrack this thread from it's original purpose, but I'd like to try and clarify my point one last time.

The Beatles have no control over this. They relinquished control over the publishing rights to their catalog back in the 1960s on the advise of their manager Brian Epstein.

Paul cannot stop "Getting Better" or "When I'm 64" from being used in commercials because he does not own the publishing rights to those songs -- Michael Jackson owns ATV Northern Songs.

For example, I work for Philips. Philips licensed "Getting Better" for our TV commercials. An arrangement was made with ATV Northern Songs. Paul McCartney has no say over how his song is used.

Paul McCartney can only refuse for Philips to use the original Beatles recording of "Getting Better".

As I mentioned earlier, the Beatles have protested any use of their songs in commercials, no matter who is singing it. But if Michael Jackson (soon to be Sony) decide to license a song for commercial use, the Beatles cannot stop it -- they ONLY control the original sound recordings that sit in a vault at Abbey Road.
 

Colin Jacobson

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
13,328
In 1993 Paul released remastered versions with bonus tracks for ALL of his albums from McCartney thru Flowers In The Dirt everywhere in the world EXCEPT the USA, where Capitol feels they are just fine with the original, horrible packages.
I'm confused. From what I've seen, all the albums from McCartney through McCartney II have the same bonus tracks in the US and elsewhere. I know the foreign versions of the Eighties albums have extra tracks not on the US ones, but otherwise, I thought the tracklistings were identical.

Hmm... looked at CDNow and saw that Ram has an extra couple of songs - think I have "Oh Woman Oh Why" elsewhere so never grabbed it. (I KNOW I have "Another Day" elsewhere, and I love the 24k version - one of the few that really DOES improve the sound - so I saw no reason to get it.) Not sure if the US Wild Life includes bonus tracks, but I suspect it doesn't; it's the only Seventies Macca for which I own the import, so there must have been some compelling reason WHY I didn't go with the US edition in that case.

For the others, I noticed that they all bear either 1987 or 1989 copyrights, so I'll grant that the rest of the world apparently gets remasters. But are there any other track differences I'm missing?
 

Colin Jacobson

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
13,328
Thanks! That differs from the four tracks on the UK edition, at least for a couple of the songs. Weird...
 

Philip Hamm

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 23, 1999
Messages
6,874
I'm confused. From what I've seen, all the albums from McCartney through McCartney II have the same bonus tracks in the US and elsewhere. I know the foreign versions of the Eighties albums have extra tracks not on the US ones, but otherwise, I thought the tracklistings were identical.

Hmm... looked at CDNow and saw that Ram has an extra couple of songs - think I have "Oh Woman Oh Why" elsewhere so never grabbed it. (I KNOW I have "Another Day" elsewhere, and I love the 24k version - one of the few that really DOES improve the sound - so I saw no reason to get it.) Not sure if the US Wild Life includes bonus tracks, but I suspect it doesn't; it's the only Seventies Macca for which I own the import, so there must have been some compelling reason WHY I didn't go with the US edition in that case.
Most of the US Capitol version of McCartney's stuff was originally mastered with bonus tracks from the very beginning. There is a white spine "Paul McCartney Collection" series in England and practically everywhere else. The music was remastered to CD in the 90s. These CDs sound significantly better than the extremely bad sounding original US Capitol relesases. In the US we still get the old Capitol masters, which contain bonus tracks. For some reason Capitol won't release the white spine masters.

I have the DCC 24K of "Red Rose Speedway", "Band On The Run" (no bonus tracks on this one unfortunately - because I love the song Country Dreamer), "Venus & Mars", and "Speed Of Sound". The only one that I ever compared head to head with the Capitol release was "Venus & Mars" and the DCC one was a dramatic improvement to say the least.
 

Colin Jacobson

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
13,328
I have the DCC 24K of "Red Rose Speedway", "Band On The Run" (no bonus tracks on this one unfortunately - because I love the song Country Dreamer), "Venus & Mars", and "Speed Of Sound". The only one that I ever compared head to head with the Capitol release was "Venus & Mars" and the DCC one was a dramatic improvement to say the least.
I've got the DCC versions of Run and Ram. (Cripes, is my collection packed with different editions of Run: I have the original CBS release for collectible reasons, the DCC for standard listening - car or wherever - plus the 25th anniversary for the bonus disc and the DTS one for home listening!) Ram's a major improvement over the old one - it may well be my favorite McCartney studio album, and I much prefer the DCC edition.

I may need to give some of the others a look. AFAIK, there are DCC editions of McCartney, Ram, RRS, BOTR, V&M, and Speed - boy do I wish they'd gotten to Over America, which is my overall fave from McCartney. Might be time to do some shopping...
 

Larry Geller

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 10, 2002
Messages
608
DCC for standard listening - car or wherever - plus the 25th anniversary for the bonus disc
Jeez---check out the 1st disc in the 25th Anniversary edition---it absolutely KILLS the DCC one (or any other version for that matter)! It's one of the best red book CDs I've ever heard--if only ALL Beatle-related stuff sounded so wonderful. That Capitol STILL has the regular non-remastered CD out there, also, shows how much they suck.
 

Philip Hamm

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 23, 1999
Messages
6,874
Ram's a major improvement over the old one - it may well be my favorite McCartney studio album, and I much prefer the DCC edition.
I used to love "Ram" but I'm not that big on it any more. I have the Columbia LP re-release circa 1981 when Paul McCartney left Capitol for a while. It's very clean, and the CD I recently made of it sounds great.
 

Colin Jacobson

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
13,328
I really love Country Dreamer, it's one of my absolutel favorite McCartney songs.
So "Dreamer" is on the import 1993 Run, not Speedway? It's on my US Eighties Speedway - I guess it isn't on the DCC one, though. Odd that these different discs have so many combinations of bonus tracks.

BTW, anybody heard the 1993 remastered Over America? I hadn't bought it since it includes no extra tracks (don't see how it could, since it featured the whole concert already) but if I get a consensus that it outdoes the prior editions, I might have to pick it up...
 

Tim Gerdes

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 1, 1999
Messages
353
Location
Trenton, NJ
Real Name
Tim Gerdes
So "Dreamer" is on the import 1993 Run, not Speedway? It's on my US Eighties Speedway - I guess it isn't on the DCC one, though. Odd that these different discs have so many combinations of bonus tracks.
I think that with the imported remasters, there was an attempt to more closely link bonus tracks to the original releases.

For instance, "Country Dreamer" was originally released as the b-side to "Helen Wheels" which appears on "Band on the Run".

Likewise, while the original CD release of Ram contained no bonus tracks, the remaster contains "Another Day" and it's b-side "Oh Woman, Oh Why". The "Another Day" single was released in Feb. 1971 - about 3 months before the release of "Ram"

I don't have the discs in front of me, so I can't say that this pattern continued with the other releases.
 

Ron Etaylor

Second Unit
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Messages
275
I just wanted to say that I was a Beatle fan long before I was an audiophile and home theater aficionado. It's cool to see so much passion for the Beatles here on this board, and to know I am not alone.
 

Larry Geller

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 10, 2002
Messages
608
BTW, anybody heard the 1993 remastered Over America?
There WASN'T any 1993 remaster of WOA (nor has it ever been remastered since then). The 1993 remasters omitted Wings Over America & All The Best. You can tell the 1993 remasters by the fact that they all have white covers & spines with smaller cover reproductions in the lower right hand corner (full covers are inside).The DCC versions of Venus And Mars, Red Rose Speedway & Wings At The Speed Of Sound all duplicate the track listings of the 1993 remasters (and also sound better than them), since they were released after 1993. The other DCC McCartneys do not because they were done before the remasters.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top