All in Wonder Radeon 8500DV , ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Lisa Space, May 15, 2002.

  1. Lisa Space

    Lisa Space Extra

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    Is the All in Wonder Radeon 8500DV the newest model out, or is there another model with more mem. The one I saw in BestBuy was the Radeon 8500 with (I think) only 64 Mem. So just so I understand, this model is the best for surfing (reading text) , video/photo editing? Thanks again.

    Also My cpu is , 1.8 Ghz 512 ram, 120 gig hard

    Lisa Space
     
  2. JasenP

    JasenP Screenwriter

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    Lisa,

    ATI has recently introduced the Radeon 8500 w/ 128mb of DDR-RAM. Though, to my knowledge there is no AIW flavor yet (no vid cap or firewire.)
     
  3. Scott L

    Scott L Producer

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    There is an 128mb DDR AIW Radeon 8500. ATi's Site. The one with analog inputs has 128mb DDR but the AIW Radeon 8500DV only comes with 64mb DDR at this time.
    Just grab a $35 firewire card and the AIW 8500 and you're set with 128mb DDR.
     
  4. Lisa Space

    Lisa Space Extra

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    Scott you mention about firewire card. Who makes it and what does it do? What I need to know is the AIW 8500DV the better one to get when it comes to surfing (reading text) and photo/video editing? This all started with me posting about the xtacy g4 128mb card, people mention to get the AIW 8500dv. But when I saw the radeon 8500 with 128mb, I was not sure which one was better AIW 8500dv or Radeon 8500 w/128mb. Thanks, and I hope I didnt make this more confusing

    Lisa Space
     
  5. Scott L

    Scott L Producer

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    Sure, all a firewire card does is allow you to transfer your home movies from a digital camcorder to your computer. The benefit of firewire over S-video and composite outputs is that the data is sent to your computer entirely in digital form so there are no Digital to analog conversions. Using the S-video and composite outs degrade the picture due to a DAC, it's not horrible quality, but there is a noticeable difference when you compare the two captures side by side. When the final product is displayed on a 32"+ TV you'll love how it looks when doing everything with firewire.
    As for getting one there are many makers. I have an ADS Tech brand and it works perfectly.
    And remember there are 3 cards you're looking at:
    1) Radeon 8500
    2) AIW Radeon 8500
    3) AIW Radeon 8500DV
    I'd recommend getting #2 as it has 128mb DDR and analog inputs for capturing your videotape collection. #3 is the same except it has a firewire card built in, but the tradeoff is 64mb of DDR memory.
    Of course if all you want to do is capture videos from a digital camcorder then all you need is a firewire card.
     
  6. Lisa Space

    Lisa Space Extra

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    OK, but lets say for surfing the net (reading/writing text). Which one would be better? I have a sony 61 inch. I want Pic quality to be as goog as possible. Most Important is getting Online, then editing.

    Lisa Space
     
  7. Scott L

    Scott L Producer

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    For text they'll all look exactly the same. The extra memory is for use with 3D accleration.

    If you want awesome and super crisp text you want a Matrox card. I've had em all and Matrox has the best 2D available to consumers. A 16mb Matrox Millenium G400 will give you better 2D than a 128mb DDR Radeon 8500, but the 3D will suffer.
     
  8. Lisa Space

    Lisa Space Extra

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    Scott, so for surfing the net you would use matrox card. Which model? Also will web pages look good as well? If I want to just open programs and edit photos/video on my Big screen, using the matrox would be better? It seems like the only good thing the aiw is for games, true? Just want to make sure I dont buy the wrong thing. Last question, do I have to do more tweaking with the matrox card.

    Lisa Space
     
  9. Scott L

    Scott L Producer

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    You want a Matrox Millenium G400 or G450. The updated G450 has better 3D performance but I'm gonna guess their 2D is just about the same. You can get a G400 for around $30 or so on ebay there's no big loss if you don't like it, which I'm sure you will. Make sure you get a dual head model if you want to output on a big screen.

    No tweaking at all is necessary to get great performance out of G400's. The ATi's put features first, quality second. I'm using a Radeon 7500 right now and prefer the 8mb Millenium II that's on my older computer upstairs for surfing the web. Ask any Matrox owner what they feel about thier card and they'll probably tell you the same.

    And yes webpages will look much better.
     
  10. Kimmo Jaskari

    Kimmo Jaskari Screenwriter

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    I would disagree with Scott on this.

    First of all, if all you want is a card to display text and video and don't need TV functions etc, you don't need an AIW card at all, a plain graphics card will do. You might want to complete the setup with a firewire card if you do digital video editing (or a combined firewire and USB2-card; Adaptec makes one of those, among others).

    If you do need a TV in and out solution, then the AIW is what you need.

    Second, the Matrox cards are by now ancient and cannot compete performancewise with the ATI Radeon 8500. It is possible they have a slightly better 2d quality (I haven't seen them side to side) but people with home theater PC's swear by the ATI cards (albeit not the 8500 series due to a flaw in its handling of gamma that makes it a worse choice for a HTPC despite being more advanced than the 7x00-series cards) simply because the ATI cards use a better RAMDAC than Nvidia cards, giving them better 2d performance.

    Third, 64MB is in itself overkill for 99% (or maybe 100%, who knows) of humanity. Only a fraction of games ever need more than 32MB, in fact; adding 64MB more to get 128MB is just a marketing tactic, a way to flex their muscles. It sounds good... wow, 128MB! By the time the software comes along to take full advantage of that 128MB, the card will already be obsolete in other aspects, so don't stare at that MB rating too much and certainly don't let it dictate your purchasing decision.

    Fourth, since you mention a 61 inch display, I'm not entirely clear on what connector you plan to use. If that display can handle a computer signal directly, a Radeon is a safe bet. If you plan to use an S-video or (shudder) composite video connection, the picture will look like (pardon my forthrightness) crap no matter what card you get.
     
  11. Scott L

    Scott L Producer

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    Kimmo that's what I saw saying. If you want to cap analog and digital video go with an AIW Radeon 8500 and an extra firewire card. If you only want to surf the net get a G400. Since she is not into PC gaming a 32mb G400 is more than enough for surfing the web. And if you haven't compared them side by side you can't say which has better 2D performance. There are threads on AVSforum explaining how to remove the RF filters off the Radeons using a soldering iron. These filters are to clean up noise but degrade picture quality. Matrox begines with high quality parts so there's no need for one.
     
  12. Lisa Space

    Lisa Space Extra

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    Well from what I thought. I would use a s-video to connect them both. This might be where I'm confused. I thought people in the forum have or had big screen TV's and also hooked them upto there Cpu's. All I really want is to be able to siton my couch and be able to read the text. Now from what I'm understand is, that it will look blury on the 61 inch screen, true? I'm sorry guys to keep going back and forth, just want to get the most bang for the buck. I really do thank you all for helping me, would do the same if I had some expert advice.

    Lisa Space
     
  13. Kimmo Jaskari

    Kimmo Jaskari Screenwriter

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    Hey, that's what the forum is for, to spread knowledge.

    Since you plan to use s-video connectors, you are definitely a candidate for the AIW, but you can pretty much forget getting truly readable text on any sized TV screen if so. You will however have a nice hard-disk based VCR and the other functions that an AIW has.

    You'd have to run the graphics card at the lowest available resolution (640x480, probably) and the text would be huge... that would at least make it possible to read it. It will still be very blurry compared to a computer monitor.

    The real benefit from a HTPC is if you have a screen capable of handling a computer signal directly, like a PC monitor - only huge. All front projectors can do this, for instance. Then you get the crisp, sharp graphics of a computer monitor but blown up to 80-100-120 inches.

    Some RPTV's, rear projection that is, also have the ability to display computer graphics directly, and in those cases you should get excellent quality - but usually those are the pricier HDTV models, I think. Here in Europe I don't think there are any large rear projection units with the VGA connector required (I may be wrong).
     
  14. Lisa Space

    Lisa Space Extra

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    OK, I should have explained this better. There is a section on the back of the tv, that has Video 1 thru 6. Video 1 is empty and the hook-ups are s-video, RCA (yellow-white-red) plugs. Video 6 is also empty and the hook-ups are for component wire. There is also a tv out w/RCA plug. There is RG6 Female connectors marked, Aux, To converter and VHF/UHF.

    I really don't care which to use to hook-up, just thought that the video cards used s-video. I have heard mixed opinions and to be honest it is making this really diffuclt. So I will try this again, in your opinion, based on what I want to do, which card would you recommend, and the model. Thanks...sorry to keep this thread going for so long, will end it, just like many, I dont like to spend my money on the wrong thing.

    Lisa Space
     
  15. Kimmo Jaskari

    Kimmo Jaskari Screenwriter

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    There is no thread size limit, or at least not a small one... I think there are a few thousand posts in the Star Wars EP II thread over in Software. [​IMG]
    Anyway... let's try to sort out those connectors first.
    The s-video connector you know what it does. The three RCA connectors should be composite video (the lone yellow one) and stereo sound (red/white rca's).
    Video connectors go from composite (that lone yellow) through s-video to component video in quality, ie composite is the worst. Essentially, composite is everying in one signal, s-video separates color and light levels and component separates it still further into three separate parts.
    None of those connectors are VGA connectors, ie computer monitor ones. That means that you will be stuck using a video signal rather than a computer signal and that means that most of my previous post stands - you won't get super crisp text no matter what you do.
    However, the existence of that component connection option might mean you could use that if you get a Radeon AIW. I haven't researched the situation, but there was talk about a converter from the DV-I output (a digital monitor connector used for, among other things, flat panel displays) to component video for not much money. I don't know what the situation is with that though.
    If anything is unclear then please feel free to keep asking... and if anyone else disagrees with me, I'm sure they'll post too.
     
  16. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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    Lisa, what is the brand and model number of your television set?
    I agree with Kimmo on this...don't expect to comfortably surf the internet on your TV. Blurry text, low resolution...most websites are designed for 800x600 or 1024x768, whereas a TV set cannot do more than 640x480 using s-video. You could get higher resolution using component video, but it would still be blurry.
    For casual surfing, it should be fine however.
    Consider hooking up a computer monitor AND the TV at the same time. Then you can have the best of both worlds. [​IMG]
     
  17. Lisa Space

    Lisa Space Extra

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    Kimmo and Max, I cant thank you guys enough for taking the time out, and everyone else in this forum. As for the type of tv, it is a Sony 61 model number KP-61HS30.

    Kimmo you mention about "a converter from the DV-I output (a digital monitor connector used for, among other things, flat panel displays) to component video for not much money" Would this type of setup make the pic quality better? I guess I would post the question about such a thing.

    Last thing, I or we kinda got away from the question. So which video card would you get, Matrox or AIW 8500, or

    AIW 8500DV. Scott also mentioned to buy the matrox, and I guess for 30 bucks, like he said it would cost, I cant lose, to maybe first try that one, but on ebay, it is safe to buy, am I better off buying brand new, and does it need to come with software.

    I guess this is really my fault, for some reason, when I first found this site, I thought everyone or most were using their PC's on big screens and thought how cool it would be to do this same, it seems now that this is not the case.

    Like I mentioned before, thanks everyone for helping me out.

    Lisa Space,

    Alittle bit closer to finding a video card
     
  18. Scott L

    Scott L Producer

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    I use my PC on my 32" wega but for videogames and watching videos, but never for surfing the internet.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    It's fine for gaming but anything with text is way too blurry to use all the time. I can't imagine how it would be on a 61" set. If you really wanted to browse the net from your couch you'd have to spend at least a thousand to get a Princeton monitor that is 27"+ and can display computer resolutions.
    "Featuring a large 27V direct-view CRT, the award-winning AR2.7 combines high-resolution with high brightness, versatility and ease-of-use making it an ideal choice for presentations and TV/PC convergence applications. Displaying SVGA (800 x 600) in RGB mode, the AR2.7 is ideal for web browsing, spreadsheets, text and graphics. The AR2.7 includes a built-in line doubler for enhanced resolution from standard video sources such as TV tuner card, VCR and DVD. The AR2.7 is compatible with progressive DVD players for the ultimate video experience."
    But this is their site, ymmv. I have never used one of these sets myself.
     
  19. Kimmo Jaskari

    Kimmo Jaskari Screenwriter

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    The blurriness would be even worse on a 61 incher, or at least no better. It would be a bigger blurry picture, but still blurry.

    Essentially, it would be a computer picture converted to a TV picture, and the effective resolution of a TV picture is very low - leading to blurriness when using a computer, and that is unavoidable.

    If the 61-incher has no direct computer input (which seems to be the case) a Matrox would make little sense; to get that extra 2d quality, you need a screen capable of displaying it. What you need is a computer card with a TV output, ie either the AIW or some other graphics card that has a tv-out (many do). What the AIW adds over the normal tv-out capable card is a tv-in and the ability to do things like record tv programs to the harddrive.

    The DVI to component video would give you the maximum possible quality on a non-computer capable display - but by maximum possible quality I still mean a TV picture, and the inevitable blurriness. I'm also none too sure it's available, it was merely mentioned as something that would be available for the Radeon eventually.

    As Scott says, a computer-to-tv setup makes sense for some things, like playing games on the big screen. Serious work however requires a computer capable display - I guess a HDTV would work, but that's rather a pricey proposition!
     
  20. Michael Harris

    Michael Harris Screenwriter

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    Since we are discussing the 8500DV AIW, I have a few questions very much related. I too have hooked my PT to my computer. I am currently using a composite connection but that will be remedied very soon with an S connector. The one question I have is why my DVD picture looks like crud? I am sure the connection has a bit to do with it but all my video connections from all my video sources have composite RCA connections and they are all sharp. I know that DVD rom drives are not up to stand alone DVD players (IE my Sony 7700) but not that bad. Any tweak suggestions. Does DVD player software make a difference in picture quality?
     

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