Alison Krauss Concert DVD (1 Viewer)

[DaViD Boulet]

This disc is *so* ordered...

 

[KevinJ]

btw[kind've off topic]akus will be on soundstage this week on pbs[in HD]check your local listings

 

[WadeB]

Is everybody getting sound out of the center channel on this? I'm getting none in either DTS or DD. Other DVDs are fine. COnnections are fine. Any thoughts?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Ok, this will officially piss me off if this is the case, but here's my hypothesis:

Some "music" oriented DVDs are mixed purposefully to NOT use the center channel...but rather place all the center mix equally in the front L/R speakers so the center is "phantom" (the same way you get a center image from a 2.0 stereo recording). The reason some disc producers do this is because they feel that the center channel most folks use may not be of the same quality as their front L/R speakers. It pisses me off personally because a *good* center channel sounds better than "phantom" and I wish they'd let the *listener* decide if his/her center channel is up to the task or not and not assume for them that it isn't.

GRRRRRR.

 

[Clint B]

Picked this DVD up tonight. I'm watching it on a 27" Wega from a few years back and listening to it on the Mirage AVS-500 sub/sat package, which is powered by the Yamaha RX-V596 receiver. My initial impressions are below...

Looks very good; very few video artifacts are seen. Sounds very good as well, but like Mr. Boulet said in a previous post, it's a shame that they didn't use the center channel to its full effect (there is very slight activity in the center channel, but I had to practically rest my ear on the speaker grille to hear it...to be sure, I heard more speaker hiss than I did of Alison's voice in the center channel. It's ironic that the only way I can hear anything of significance out of the center channel is to put it in PCM mode with Pro Logic engaged.) There is very little difference between DD and DTS. I wish they would have mixed the overall audio presentation better...I have to turn up the volume significantly to hear the chatter in between songs.

There is a song missing! If you look at the audio credits it lists the usual credits for all songs played, but it also includes credits for the song "There Is A Reason." I've heard that this is on the CD, but I didn't buy the CD in anticipation of the DVD release. If "There Is A Reason" is on this DVD, somebody please point it out to me, because they do a fantastic job on that song.

I've not watched Disc 2 yet, so I can't comment on the extras.

 

[Jim Golden]

One difference I noticed with regards to the Dolby Digital vs. DTS track....Alison does allot of talking between some songs; this dialog, which can barely be heard on the DTS version, can be heard and understood on the Dolby Digital version.

JIm

 

[Rich Malloy]

Ok, this will officially piss me off if this is the case, but here's my hypothesis:

Some "music" oriented DVDs are mixed purposefully to NOT use the center channel...but rather place all the center mix equally in the front L/R speakers so the center is "phantom" (the same way you get a center image from a 2.0 stereo recording). The reason some disc producers do this is because they feel that the center channel most folks use may not be of the same quality as their front L/R speakers.

I don't have the DVD, but I've had the hybrid SACD of "LIVE" since it streeted a few months ago. The SACD is one of the first "direct-to-DSD" pop recordings, and IMO it's a reference disc.

The multichannel mix on the SACD entirely eschews the center channel, as do many of my other multichannel SACDs. I've also got many discs with a very active center channel, including a few where voices are placed discretely there, and some with only slightly active center channels (usually just "fill", probably to help create a more solid off-axis center image). But do I have a preference? Not really. But some of the best sounding multichannel SACDs I have don't use a center channel at all, or use it quite judiciously. And I find that some of my music DVDs sound much better in phantom mode (the LPCM track on "The Wall" DVD most notably).

I can't speak to the quality of sound on the "LIVE" DVD, but from the responses here it doesn't seem to be as impressive as the SACD (I mean the "LIVE" DVD as compared to other DVDs, of course... obviously it shouldn't sound as good as an SACD, much less a reference one). But assuming you like the music, the SACD would be among a very small handful of must-have discs. The multichannel mix, in particular, is one of the very best I've ever heard, and nothing I've heard gives truer timbres and that visceral sense of a real space in which the music is occurring than direct-to-DSD multichannel recordings (specifically, no analog tape or PCM conversion anywhere in the chain, much less conversion to a lossy compression format like DD or DTS). The "in-the-room" analogy is a bit overused, but it applies in spades for this SACD, though it's probably more accurate to say that it transports me to the hall where the music was originally performed rather than transporting the performance to my room. And that a pretty good thing since the sonic signature of my room is a good bit different than that of the Louisville Palace.

 

[Yumbo]

hi,

I have the opposite results.

I prefer the DVD sound to the SACD.
I get no bass on Forget About It on SACD.

is my setup wrong?
I have the Marantz 8300 straight to a Yamaha RX-Z1.

My other SACDs sound better than AKUS in general. Am just not taken by it, I'd rather listen to the CD layer with DSP.

any comments welcome.

thanks.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Chris, I've got "Live", "New Favorite" and "Now that I've Found You"... unfortunately I haven't heard "Forget About It". Still, I have to think there's something wrong with your setup. The CD layer on the Rounder SACDs are invariably very good, with none of the over-maximizing, and compression and limiting that makes nearly every mainstream-produced CD nearly or entirely unlistenable these days. And, yet, the SACD layer is on another plane altogether.

Well, unless... you don't happen to listen to your SACDs on an el cheapo $200 player and your CDs on a $7000 unit from Mark Levinson, do you?

 

[Rich Malloy]

Duhh... wait a minute! Do you mean the album "Forget About It" or the song from the "Live" recording? (I kinda think you meant the latter!)

If so, and I'll want to check to be sure, but I seem to recall that Barry switches over to an electric upright for that song and that song only. I'm pretty sure I'm right about this because I recall thinking that it didn't sound nearly as rich and full as his acoustic upright and I had no idea why he'd switch over to the electric for this tune. At any rate, the presence or absence of bass will depend on the mix, of course, and it may well be that they pumped up the electric bass a bit higher for the DVD release. I don't think he should've broken it out at all!

 

[Yumbo]

Live SACD, Live DVD - direct comparison, same player.
Same concert.

SACD no bass, DVD got bass.

I like DVD. :b

I do have all the CD albums as well.

 

[Jim Garbern]

Chris,
Need more details to try to figure out what the problem is. I suspect that it's how you set up your system. SACDs don't have a dedicated subwoofer channel like most DVDs have. You need to set up the bass management on the SACD player carefully to get the best sound, including calibrating the system with something like the venerable Radio Shack sound pressure level meter. The crossover for your mains and subwoofer will greatly influence your sound. DVDs tend to be somewhat hotter in the .1 channel. The SACD is better sounding IMHO, using a pre/pro with analog bass management for SACD/DVD-A, which is a major improvement over a Denon receiver without bass management.
BTW, great concert DVD. Don't know why the jewel case version is $5 more than the regular DVD case. The content seems identical. The little snippet of Alison at the men's urinal alone is almost worth the price of the video.
Jim

 

[Yumbo]

I've calibrated both digital and analog outputs.

I have no idea how much I paid for mine, lol.

 

[Jim Garbern]

Chris,
Bass management is a weak point with many systems when it comes to SACD or DVD-A. Are you able to calibrate the subwoofer using the analog setup? One useful calibration disc for SACD/DVD-A is the Chesky Ultimate Surround DVD which is designed for this.
Jim

 

[Rich Malloy]

I can't understand Chris' bass issues here either. The bass on the SACD sounds gorgeous on my system (though I don't think Barry should have switched to the electric on "Forget About It"... a much thinner, weaker sound than the acoustic).

I was thinking about the fact that Dolby Digital tracks give the LFE channel a +10db boost (or something), but that shouldn't make any difference since the SACD signal isn't sent through the same circuitry as the DD signal for bass management, etc.... right? For SACDs, I manage my bass and sub levels via my Outlaw ICBM-1. For DVDs, I use the circuitry in my receiver for calibration. So, even though the source media may output the levels differently, that is, even though the bass may get a +10db push when DVDs are played, this shouldn't make one whit of difference on a properly calibrated system... right?

At any rate and to my ears, there's not a thing wrong with the bass output of the SACD. It's one of the most natural, balanced and realistic sounding recordings I've heard... ever.

Chris, forgive me for asking, but you're not a fan of the boom-boom, dual 15" subs in a Honda Civic type sound, right? Sorry to have to ask, but I'm sure you understand... well-integrated bass is so often considered "wrong" on some of these home theater pages.

 

[Andrew W]

I notice a tiny bit more bass on the DTS vs. SACD run through my ICBM. Not enough to warrant messing with any settings though. In my opinion, The SACD sounds much better, but I think it's going to be very hard to top that recording.

 

[Yumbo]

I listened again last night, and in fact the DTS track has more bass than the DD track, which is not suprising.

I listened again to the SACD, and no, no bass at 1.10 on FORGET ABOUT IT (Track 12). I switched to the CD layer, and heaps of bass (ala the DTS DVD track)!

I have AVIA and an SPL meter.

No, I do not like boomy taxis that go by vibrating people's windows.

My SACD player is new, and I do not plan to get an Outlaw unit. I though of boosting the analog SW output, but that would make it non-calibrated, and apparently doesn't apply for my Maranntz 8300 player.

It does for DVD-A, and it shows as I have no complaints about my DVD-A discs - they sound better than my SACDs.

 

[Jim Garbern]

Don't know much about this player, but it does seem to have implemented bass management in a less than ideal manner according to a recent review. The ICBM is a recommended accessory if you don't have true full range speakers all around.
Jim

 

[Rich Malloy]

Hmmmm... you're not using the onboard bass management on the Marantz, are you, Chris? If it's anything like the onboard bass management on my Sony C555ES, then it's worthless. Inapt and unchangeable crossover frequency, for one, but it also requires a conversion from DSD to PCM that severely degrades the SACD signal. Like I said... worthless.

Bass management is probably completely unavailable for DVD-A discs on your Marantz (which is the case with nearly every player on the market, and the review linked to in the previous post seems to confirm this). This might be why you're generally more satisfied with DVD-A playback on your unit, particularly with regard to bass playback.

It's also why I think SACD should eschew these half-assed attempts at onboard bass management altogether (just as DVD-A does), at least until they can come up with something that doesn't severely degrade the signal and require a "one-size-fits-all" crossover selection (at about 120Hz on the Sonys!). Why can't something like the analog approach that Outlaw took with the ICBM-1 be implemented on SACD and DVD-A players? I'd pay $200-250 for such a feature (the cost of an ICBM-1), and save a bunch of money on cabling expenses while also reducing the rear-of-the-rack ratnest.

 

[Yumbo]

Is the ICBM-1 available anywhere, and is it universal voltage? We run 240V.

Can a pre-pro be a solution? I have 2 spare amps sitting unused.