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Discussion in 'DVD' started by James Reader, Jan 28, 2003.
I was extremely hyped to buy the complete box, but the Bits article on the missing material from the ALIEN 3 doco is incredibly depressing. What a shitty, self-serving, paranoid decision it must have been by someone to cut that material. I think the Bits article sums it up very well, and I can't be anything but pissed to think that Fox have compounded insult to injury by permanently crippling what must have been a really great original doco. Kudos to Fox for their efforts for the rest of the set - I'm happy the transfers are better and the new supplements elsewhere are great - but the idea of what could have been, and what almost was, is sad to think about. I know it's just a doco but I like to watch them, and it's never much fun to see commerce shaking its head with a final 'No!' at any sort of decent or relevant art. If Fox re-releases the original doco somehow, I'll double-dip - that is, if I do bother to get the box ahead of the key single movies individually.
Thanks John for the info on the Alien Queen Box Set, I'll start calling around for best prices. Now, about this "Alien 3" doc. review, I know that people here are terribly disappointed, so am I. I just cannot believe this. The whole point of this set is "Alien 3" basically, Charles wanted to give us an in-depth look at "Alien 3" then he was asked why not the whole 4 films. I will however, because I am a sucker for the Alien films, get the Quad set anyway, I am all about getting it all when it comes to these films, and unfortunately I won't get to see the whole doc. At least we all know now, and some of us sometimes prefer not to hear a bad news, kinda like, "what you don't know can't hurt you". But plain and simple, "Alien 3" went through production hell as a movie, and production hell as a DVD. It's extremely sad. But hey....humm...if the workprint leaked out of the hands of 20th Century Fox....get my drift here....would there ever be a 'workprint' of the full 'Making of Alien 3' documentary...??? Damn laws But yes, like someone else said here, I wouldn't want to be a production company, spend all this money on a set, and have a director bash us and say mean things to us in a doc., so at the same time I understand. But anyway, I am furrious about this, but nevertheless I will be getting the box set, and one thing that makes me mad is this "caption" crap during the delected-inserted in to the movie-scenes because I heard, according to the Bits that they had to call the actors to do voice overs at certain scenes, so they might not be heard to clearly.
I'm not letting a few minutes of missing material ruin what is an amazing set. Looking for weak points in this offering seems silly to me. Let's not forget what IS there that we never had before. Not to mention the extra 30 mintues in A3. I think we're lucky to have it. If The Game SE ever gets legs, I'd be just as thrilled. E
What's particularly annoying about the Alien3 snafu is that (according to the Bits' book) Fox's lawyers approved the original documentary. So it makes me wonder; if the lawyers weren't that worried, then who was? Who could have that much to lose if we saw Fincher arguing with his producers, or if we heard him call Fox a bunch of 'f***ing idiots'? Sure, Giler and Hill might be pissed that the Alien3 docco would air a bit of dirty laundry, but Alien3 aficionados are already well aware of the problems that Fincher experienced with those two (and others at Fox). We've read the stories in print many times, so why not let us see the actuality? And what's with cutting scenes of Fincher at work? Who could they possibly offend with that except Finch himself - but why would he care anyway? It just doesn't make sense. I'll gladly receive my Quad boxset though, and will enjoy the new cuts of the movies and the myriad extras. If anything, it's the packaging that's still concerning me the most.
They could've edited the "F u, Fox" and made tiny edits here and there, yet still retaining Charles' original vision; I'd been happy with that! It's another daft decision by FOX, they've made a few this year, but this one takes the biscuit. Most Alien fans are probably on the internet; a mass boycott of this product shouldn't be too difficult to organise...
So, if I understand this correctly, Fox originally butchered Alien 3. Now, Fox is restoring Alien 3 on DVD trying to make it as close to David Fincher's original vision as possible. And then they butcher the documentary on it? That's irony at it's best. I suppose in 5 years we'll get the full documentary on DVD with a butchered up commentary track explaining why the documentary was originally trimmed down.
Is the re-cut Alien 3 documentary any worse than re-cutting the actual films? All of the new cuts of the films on this set (with the exception of Aliens) were done simply to sell DVDs. And two of them were done without the participation of the film makers. To get so upset about an extra feature and not the actual films is perplexing. It seems that this whole set was set up by FOX marketing and that's the worst reason I've ever heard in my life to recut a film. There was no director standing there saying they wanted to make a different cut, and this is a horrible precedent to set. It completely destroys the artistic integrity of the films. Neil
"What's particularly annoying about the Alien 3 snafu is that (according to the Bits' book) Fox's lawyers approved the original documentary." Well, that takes the cake....I'm officially sticking with what I've got until (if?) Fox corrects this. I'm waiting to purchase this set Fox....make the right decision....if you can without lawsuits.
I don't understand everyone's dismay with the Alien 3 documentary editing. As I see it, all it is is just parts where Fincher was either badmouthing Fox or screaming at someone on the set. Big fucking loss.
I cant wait to see the pics of this set! Shame about the cuts though, but I guess the big coperations has to protect their reputaion...
This is very dissappointing about the Alien3 Documentary. Granted, I haven't seen the first three films, so the Alien 3 wasn't the only reason for buying. Still, I have heard a lot of things about the troubled production, and I was looking forward to some details. Oh well, I guess this just shows that people in Hollywood don't really like to admit mistakes. I've still got my money ready to buy this set.
hmmmm. as much as i loathe A3 for being not only dreary and derivative, but wholly unneccessary, i confess my interest is piqued in hearing and seeing what other concepts were out there floating around for the followup before they settled on the script and storyline they did. i can't see how any story involving the Ripley character could be anything but superfluous given the incredible job Cameron did with Arcing that character, but the production designs and thoughts from Harlin sound intriguing. i'm almost vaccilating back in the direction of picking up the entire set- but then to read about the ill-concieved cuts to the doc (the male prostitute psuedonym really hammers home a message!) really throw cold water on that. whoever is resonsible for that decision really should re-think it and offer the uncut doc as a mail-in replacement. Fox looks like they were actively looking to impress hardcore fans with set, and now the end result is always going to be "well...it could have been the ultimate set..." if they re-think that, i'll pop for the set, otherwise it's back to waiting for the individual releases.
"Most Alien fans are probably on the internet; a mass boycott of this product shouldn't be too difficult to organise..." Well, I think a call for a boycott is a little hasty, aint it? I'd think you'd want to save that for last ditch type stuff, not straight off the bat. As an aside, the word "boycott" is so overused online, it's almost a non-threat now. How many boycotts have actually happened? and how many have actually had the effect they desired? Nah, I'm sure someone from Fox Home Entertainment is paying attention to this thread, if not a couple someone's (Hello Mr Staddon). We're all being read right now, and I think the message is getting across just fine. The only question is whether we're going to ever have a response. I'm sure it's easy for them to say "Who are they for us to be held accountable to?" but I'm hoping someone comes in here at some point soon and explains why it was cut after previous approval, and if there's going to be any discussion amongst the people at Fox about maybe re-inserting that footage real quick. Release date is closing in REAL quick--but I don't think it's all too late yet, is it? That said, I dunno if the cuts are reason enough to deter people who WERE going to buy the disc from actually purchasing it. Granted, there's about a half hour missing from the doc, but there's still 3 hours worth of great stuff in there, Hunt himself admits it. Problem being that all our perceptions have now been colored by what MIGHT have been as opposed to what we got. What you want most is often what you can't have, as the old cliche goes. We could still get it--but overreacting might not be the best way to go about it. Hopefully Fox is reading right now.
No, I'd say there's no chance of changing the box at this point. If the set drops in early December, it's no doubt already at replication. It may already be in warehouses. Fincher history buffs can hope, I guess, that the complete docu shows up in discs earmarked for some other territory (possible?) .... or that an early copy of the uncut documentary was put at some point in the hands of someone who's willing to bootleg it. -bf-
Just so you guys know... yes, it's frustrating that Disc six was edited, but it should in know way deter you from picking up this box set. Even with the most frank moments deleted, this is still a very good disc of extras, as I believe I said in my review. With this one disc of bonus material, we just went from nothing to about 95% of what we'd ultimately want on this film. And this is the only weak spot in an otherwise amazing box set. Don't get too worked up about this, or you'll only be doing yourself a disservice. I'm hopeful that, if sales are good, Fox will find sudden new motivation to release that original disc. Maybe when the individual films are released next year, they'll consider going back to the original disc. One never knows. This is definitely something I'm going to work on. But I think the worst thing people can do is to bitch-slap the studio for one misstep among many great ones with this set. I know things tend to get a little reactionary around here, but try to keep things is perspective guys.
exactly, Bill. Thanks for that. Essentially, by saying "BOYCOTT!" over this, we're saying "The only reason I'd buy this set is to watch David Fincher get frustrated and pissed" Which isn't the case for most of the people who helped this thread get to 68 pages, right? There's a big 3 hour documentary as opposed to a 23 minute fluff behind the scenes piece on the first disc. there's the workprint cut finally restored and released, a cut that most of us thought was an utter impossibility a few years ago. And that's ignoring the fact you still have 8 other discs you're going to be getting for roughly the same price as buying the trilogy seperately, in their 2-disc single releases, about a month later. That's not to let Fox off the hook with the cuts to this documentary, tho. I'm not going to deprive myself of all the work Charlie put into this set because of a few lost scenes of Fincher slowly losing his mind on set, but that doesn't mean I'm happy with what happened. And I hope Fox is paying attention.
Bill, I see where you are coming from, but I'm on severely limited income right now (just started my own repair shop after leaving the corporate world), and if I'm gonna invest $70-80 in something, the things I actually wanted to purchase it for need to be intact. Otherwise I've got my original releases of Alien and Aliens until things are rectified and/or explained. Many have tons of disposable income for DVDs, but 70-80 bucks is basically my DVD budget for the entire month of December, and there are a lot of other things being done right that I could spend the money on (I still haven't picked up Indy, for instance, which is a must buy, not to mention in less than a week we've got The Two Towers: EE and the 3 disc Ric Flair compilation.) I'm not really upset with Fox, as I trust they'll make the right decision sooner than later, or at least give us a reason why the doc was cut. When that day comes, I'm sure I'll buy the set. Until then, my already tight budget has been trimmed of the thing I wanted most this fall, which with my limited toy money is both a blessing and a curse. I'll gladly cave as soon as Fox does....I WANT this set.
I agree with Robert and Bill. It's a shame the doc was chopped, and hopefully the protest here will grow over time (has anyone started a petition yet?), but I'm still very much looking forward to this set. Hopefully Fox will offer a mail-in replacement promotion at some point in the future. My gut feeling, though, is that they were more worried about Fincher possibly suing them than about looking bad. They've already been bad-mouthed all over the place during the past 11 years, and the current regime isn't the one that made the decisions back then. Unless, of course, the worry is that members of the old regime will sue over it. I think the worry about a Fincher lawsuit is probably misplaced, but the worry about old execs suing could be very real.