Alien isolated score (non-AQ related) (1 Viewer)

[Anthony Neilson]

The first Alien DVD has an isolated score and an alternative music track.

However, the isolated score often doesn't match the score on the movie itself ; and frequently, all three tracks seem to be different from each other.

Does anyone know exactly what these scores represent ?

And does anyone know why there's such a blatant rip-off of the "Music for strings, percussion and celeste" track by Penderecki (I think), later used to great effect in THE SHINING ? Has Goldsmith acknowledged its use ? Does it have something to do with his alleged fall-out with Ridley Scott ?

 

[Felix Martinez]

"Music for strings, percussion and celeste" track by Penderecki (I think), later used to great effect in THE SHINING ?

I believe that's a Bartok piece. Don't remember it on the Alien isolated score. Must go back and check it out.

Cheers,

 

[Robert Anthony]

Ridley Scott and Goldsmith had a hard time scoring the flick--basically, Ridley chopped Jerry's score up and inserted some of the temp music into the actual movie itself in some cases. I think what's on the isolated score track is what Goldsmith actually composed for the movie before Ridley went at it, and the alternative music track is a weird combo of the two, with production audio put in where score isn't. There are different lines and different delivery of lines and such on the production audio along with different music cues.

the AQ set deals with this, apparently, from what I've read in reviews.

I'm sure someone else can fill you in a lot better than my half-ass explanation

 

[Kenneth English]

And does anyone know why there's such a blatant rip-off of the "Music for strings, percussion and celeste" track by Penderecki (I think), later used to great effect in THE SHINING ? Has Goldsmith acknowledged its use ? Does it have something to do with his alleged fall-out with Ridley Scott ?

Actually, the moment you're referring to (during Dallas' crawl through the ventilation ducts) is a piece tracked in from Goldsmith's score for John Huston's 1962 movie Freud. A portion of it does seem to be heavily inspired by (some may say "stolen from") Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta. But then a lot of Goldsmith's early stuff shows the Bartok influence. The piece that plays under the opening credits is from Freud as well.

The only non-Goldsmith music in Alien (if I'm not mistaken) is the music used at the end and over the end credits (Howard Hanson's Symphony No. 2: Romantic).
Oh, yeah -- and also the excerpt from Mozart's Eine kleine Nachtmusik that Dallas is listening to in the escape pod right before the search for the facehugger in the infermary.

 

[Kevin_H]

The piece that plays under the opening credits is from Freud as well.

I not so sure about that. The piece of music that plays under the main credits is also used in the sequence where they discover the Alien spacecraft. During that sequence, if you turn on the isolated score function on the last DVD, you'll hear that piece of music as well. And if the isolated score track is supposed to represent what Goldsmith composed originally for "Alien", then the Main Title was written for "Alien" but Goldsmith intended to be used for the approach to the Alien space craft sequence.

The differences I noticed between what Goldsmith recorded and what Scott used in the movie are as follows:

1. Different main title, with music intended for the Alien Spacecraft approach. Also the movie uses the Twentieth Century Fox theme music for the logo, Goldsmtih had composed suspense music to go over the logo.

2. Goldsmith's track of the Nostromo landing has been chopped in half by Scott. The first half is thrown away and the second half starts the sequence. As a result, at the end of the landing no music is present, although Goldsmith intended music to play threwout the whole sequence.

3. During the approach to the Alien spacecraft sequence, Scott cuts out Goldsmith's end to the sequence, that of Dallas, Kane, and Lambert entering the spacecraft. Goldsmith had a scary string selection for this moment. Scott edits in Goldsmith's "time" flute motif for this moment.

4. For the music for the discovery of the space jockey, Goldsmith composed music all the way threw this scene and had the track continue into the next scene when Ripley says to Ash that the transmittion is a warning. Scott cuts the music out of the end, ending the music when the camera pulls into a closeup of the space jockeys head.

5. Goldsmith had written music that sounded like it was from "Planet of the Apes" for the sequence when Kane discoveres the eggs and the face hugger attacks him. Scott replaces this with more of Goldsmith's "time" flute motif.

6. For the scene where Ash and Dallas try to cut the face hugger off of Kane, only to have the acid blood almost burn threw the hull. Goldsmith actually wrote two pieces of music. One suspence music leading up to Ash cutting the facehugger, the other action music as the crew run to contain the acid. This is replaced with a track from what I assume is from "Freud", due to the different nature of music from the rest of the score, and the fact that this music dosen't appear anywhere on the alternate Goldsmith track.

7. The sequence of the Nostromo taking off seems to be the first portion of the Nostromo landing scene. On the alternate music track, the rest of the Nostromo landing sequence keeps playing all the way up to half way into the scene where Kane wakes up. This seems to mean that Goldsmith never wrote music for the Nostromo taking off. Why, I don't know.

8. For Kane's buriel, suspence music preceded this cue as the crew looks for the Alien in the corriders. The suspence music was cut out from the movie.

9. For Brett's death scene, Goldsmith had written music for the entire time that Brett is in the landing leg room. Scott cuts all that out and only uses the part of the track when the Alien appears behind Brett. The first part of the track can be heard later when Ash attacks Ripley.

10. For Dallas's final conversation with Mother, the track of Kane's buriel seems to be reused. The suspence music that was previously cut out the sequence before Kane's death can be heard. This seems to indicate that Goldsmith never wrote music for this scene. Perhaps Scott felt later that the scene needed music so he reused the Kane funeral track.

11. For Dallas's death scene in the vents, the track that Goldsmith wrote is replaced with one with one I assume is from "Freud" based on the fact it dosen't appear anywhere on Alternate Music track and its a different compositional style than the rest of the music.

12. For the scene where Ash attacks Ripley, Goldsmith wrote an action composition. This is replaced by Scott by the suspenceful cue that was written and cut out of the scene when Brett enters the landing leg room.

13. For the scene on the bridge when Ripley looks for Jones, no music appears on the alternate track. The music in the movie is probably from "Freud" based on the different commpositional style and the track dosen't appear anywhere on the alternate music track.

14. For the scene where Ripley blows the Alien out of the airlock, the first part of the music Goldsmith wrote is used, up until the point where the alien floats into the engines and Ripley turns them on to kill the Alien. At this point, Scott cuts out Goldsmith's score and replaces it with Howard Hanson's Romantic Symphony.

15. Goldsmith's original end title is also replaced by Hanson's Romantic Symphony.

If I missed anything let me know.

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

The main isolated score track is the music as Goldsmith originally wrote it. Somethings do not match up because Goldsmith scored sections that were re-edited after scoring. That's why parts of "The Landing" do not match up. Goldsmith scored an earlier edit of the film.

The second audio track has the music from Freud that was tracked in as well as alternate cues that Goldsmith wrote. For instance, Goldsmith wrote 2 versions of the Main Title. The original version of the Main Title was unused in the film, but since that was Goldsmith's initial composition it is presented on the first isolated score track. The alternate Main Title (which was used in the movie) was written later and is presented on the second track. Also, the Main Title music was definitely written for ALIEN. And as stated above it was also tracked into the alien planet section of the film.

Musically, ALIEN is a mess.

Neil

 

[Felix Martinez]

It was also a bit odd seeing Patton recently and hearing those staccatto/repeated horn motif! I kept watching the skies for the Nostromo...

Cheers,

 

[Anthony Neilson]

Kevin - wow ! Well done.
Makes me feel twice the idiot for saying it was Penderecki instead of Bartok. Didn't have my copy of THE SHINING to hand.

But anyone who hasn't noticed, listen to the music under Jack Nicholson's "wish we could stay here forever and ever" scene with Danny on his knee, and then listen to the music under Dallas in the ventilation shaft (the actual score, not the alternative).
No disrespect to Jerry - one of the last truly great film composers - but to call it "inspired by" is pretty generous.

Though I did notice, Kevin, that - on the isolated score - the Mozart carries on right into the scene where they search for Kane's ex-facehugger.

 

[oscar_merkx]

thanks for all the info folks, might as well buy the original Alien DVD if I can find it

 

[Anthony Neilson]

Yeah, it IS a real shame that these isolated scores won't be available on the AQ for those who don't have them. It's the best use of the feature ever, imo ; even more so because Goldsmith's original score (or, rather, Ridley Scott's selection from it) is currently unavailable on CD.

 

[GregK]

I might be off here, but isn't the isolated music score derived from the 70mm temp mix that was also used for the AC-3 (DD) Alien laserdisc? I remember the LD score being very different in certain places when compared to the DD 4.0 (coded as DD 5.1) Alien DVD. But I only own the laserdisc and did the DVD/LD comparison some time ago...

 

[Michael Harris]

it IS a real shame that these isolated scores won't be available on the AQ

We can thank Mr. Goldsmith for that.

On a bit of a related side note, the use of Hanson's "Romantic Symphony" during the end credits was my first introduction to his work and now I have all of his symphonies including versions that he conducted. Check it out.

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

isn't the isolated music score derived from the 70mm temp mix that was also used for the AC-3 (DD) Alien laserdisc?

No. In fact on one of the cues, you can even hear conductor Lionel Newman very briefly. Clearly these were taken from separate music recordings.

Neil

 

[Kevin_H]

You know, once I got over the fact that the "Romantic Symphony" was a completely wrong piece of music to end "Alien" on, I realized that the Symphony itself is actually a rather beautiful piece of composition. I think I make take your suggestion and check out more of Hanson's music.

On a side note, I have come to the conclusion that nine out of ten edits to Goldsmith's score that Scott made are correct. The only time I really disagree with Scott did was to bring in the "Freud" music or "the Romantic Symphony." In the case of the "Freud" music, the difference in the music is significant enough where it pulls the audience out of the movie.

In the case of the "Romantic Symphony", that piece of music, while beautiful is completely wrong for the end of "Alien", in which all the characters in the movie except one get killed. The "Romantic Symphony" is, well, too romantic for the end of such a movie. Goldsmith I thought really captured the sense of bittersweetness Ripley had of surviving but yet everyone else dying.


As to the times when Scott was correct I think the blame has to rest on Scott and not on Goldsmith. I watched the AMC making of Alien documentary and they had a quote from Tom Skerritt that the only piece of direction he got from Scott during the entire shoot was "interesting". Likewise, I read an interview with Goldsmith from 1986 where Goldsmith said that he got absolutely no feedback from Scott during the entire duration of scoring.

Goldsmith was basically left to his own devices and did the best he could under the circumstances. I think if Scott had told Goldsmith the problems up front, Goldsmith would have easily been able to make the adjustments. If you look at the DVD of "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", a movie made in the same year, you see that Goldsmith's first version of the music where Kirk first sees the Enterprise didn't work. Robert Wise told Goldsmith that there was no "Star Trek" theme, then Goldsmith went away, made the adjustment and the result is a classic piece of music. If Scott was upfront with Goldsmith, the result would have been a much better score that ended up in the movie.

I think Scott at that point in his career was more comfortable as a technical director (which he is an incredible one, and still is) and less comfortable directing actors or composers. In fairness to Scott, even by "Thelma and Louise" you can see he had made great strides in that area and I think he is the best director working today.

By the way, Anthony, thanks for the compliment.

 

[Mark_TS]

I think Ridley Scott made excellent choices in his approach to scoring ALIEN.
He wanted MOOD over bombast.
Much of Goldsmiths score as found on the CD seems somewhat cliched "Hollywood Space-epic" in style, IMHO.

The delecate nuances Scott used in the film drew me in instantly.
Though all of the music is Goldsmiths, (save end credits) some re-arranging of pieces was necessary.

I think the very quiet, eerie flute motif during the opening credits/Jockey scene was brilliant in its almost Zen-like simplicity.
To me it implied a dark, vast, ancient mystery-and a warning that something old, something evil, was lurking...

I also think Hansons Symphony nr 2 was also a brilliant move-its soothing mood is fitting relief after 2 hours of tension, with its ending that speaks of triumph AND of sadness, tragedy, and loss.
And the awakening (?) from a nightmare.

 

[Kenneth English]

On a side note, I have come to the conclusion that nine out of ten edits to Goldsmith's score that Scott made are correct. The only time I really disagree with Scott did was to bring in the "Freud" music or "the Romantic Symphony." In the case of the "Freud" music, the difference in the music is significant enough where it pulls the audience out of the movie.

While I agree completely with your thoughts on the Howard Hanson piece, I think the use of Goldsmith's music from Freud was inspired. It really captured the overwhelming creepy vastness and sense of isolation in space (especially the cue used during the opening titles). It would be perfect music for an H.P. Lovecraft adaptation. I haven't seen Freud but I'm having a hard time imagining how that music would fit into a film about the great psychoanalyst!

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

I think the use of Goldsmith's music from Freud was inspired. It really captured the overwhelming creepy vastness and sense of isolation in space (especially the cue used during the opening titles).

As I stated earlier, the music in the main titles IS NOT from Freud. It's an alternate main title, written by Goldsmith for ALIEN. Freud is used in three spots: where the acid bleeds through the ship, when Dallas is in the air shaft and when Ripley is looking for Jones on the bridge.

Neil

 

[Kevin_H]

http://www.ts-deconstruction.com/gol..._interview.htm

Thought this link may add to the discussion, its an 1986 Goldsmith interview about "Legend" and "Alien".