AL: 1st round playoffs (1 Viewer)

[Patrick_S]

Seth,

On the surface your response appears to be well reasoned, unfortunately the reality is it falls flat because you obviously were quite careless in your reading of my post and simply read what you wanted to read and not what I wrote.

That's not open to interpretation but a clear fact.

The stereotype reference is not about "poor losers" and if you think it is your wrong.

FYI: Nice back door name-calling, since I don't think that kind of behavior is appropriate I'll just simply move on for I would rather talk about baseball.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Guys,
Let's quit the labeling of fans and move on with the discussion about the teams left playing in the playoffs.
Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

Seth,
The Yankees lost this playoff series because they had a complete meltdown with their pitching staff. Any team that has their opponents batting .376 in a short five game series usually and deservingly never comes out on top as the victor. To put the crux of the Yankees failure on the new guys is too simplistic and emotional thought pattern for me to accept. The Yankees were soundly beaten in four games because their pitching couldn't hold a lead and they have to reevaluate members of their pitching staff as well as a few position players. Did they make too many changes in a short period of time with this 2002 roster? Perhaps so, next season will be very interesting as they attempt to put this team back together, but they need to make good sound decisions on some of the pitchers that didn't pitch their best this past week.




Crawdaddy

 

[LewB]

At the risk of turning this into a forum based version of an AM sports radio phone in show ...
The Yanks pitching was good enough to win 100 games this year. Somehow the Angels managed to hit the entire staff like they were batting practice pitchers. In game 3 they blew a 5 run lead. They lost a lead in game 4 as well. Did the Yanks lose the series because they were expected to win, or did the Angels win it because they were expected to lose? Before the series started all the 'experts' were comparing the post season experience of the 2 teams, it was something like 540 to 2 for the Yanks. Now that they lost, that experience translates to 'they are long in the tooth'. If they Yanks win, they bought it; if they lose, their spending on payroll is second guessed. It may be time to take a serious look at the entire pitching staff and perhaps be willing to lose a few games next year while developing some farm talent. I'll leave that to the folks who run the Yanks, I know they want to win today!
One more item from the soapbox:
Steinbrenner bought this club and turned it into a virtual money machine. That came from a desire to win and a willingness to spend money. That investment has paid off handsomely. 3.5 Million people were willing to pay for overpriced tickets and concessions just to watch the Yanks play. Road attendance also goes up when the Yanks are in town. The Yanks give revenue sharing money to most of the other teams in the league. Are you aware that there is no requirement for those teams to spend that money on improving their team or stadium ?
Again, congrats to the Angels. The Monkey won. Just remember that the 400 pound gorilla will be back.

 

[HankM]

The Yankees lost this playoff series because they had a complete meltdown with their pitching staff

I'm a Yankee fan and this is what exactly happened. The Angels's spanked them for it.

 

[Patrick Sun]

The fielding of the Yankees didn't help matters either. But the Yankee starters had a 4-game ERA of over 10 runs, no team is going to win a 5-game series with that high of an ERA.

Kudos to the Angels for doing their homework with the scouting reports and executing their gameplan.

 

[Seth Paxton]

To put the crux of the Yankees failure on the new guys is too simplistic and emotional thought pattern for me to accept.

Well the fact remains that you added Clemens, then Mussina, then Weaver and Karsay this year (remember these were all examples of Yankee money talking).

You let Lloyd, Grimsley then Nelson go from the mid-relief.

They kept trying to retool the pitching by buying it, and it just kept degrading year after year. Just look at Mussina in last year's WS and this playoff. Look at Clemens 99 vs Wells 99. All those moves were mostly a spinning of the wheels or steps backward. Clemens gave you good stuff, I'll admit, but adding him to the aging staff in the first place was a questionable move (Cone was already on his way out, as was Doc Gooden). Then "fixing" it further by adding to Clemens and El Duque by bringing in Mussina, then Wells, just aggrevated the situation. Also, look at that Weaver move and then consider a similar move - Neagle.

You can't keep doing things for the now that totally undermine the future. Or making flat out bad trades or FA pickups/releases.

It wasn't a meltdown, it was an eventuality. Again, someone like Eric Milton could have come in very handy on this roster and he could have been groomed by the team, slowly integrated as Pettite was.

Also, the pitching was the weakness in this series anyway. BOTH teams were supposed to bring the offense, but the Yanks kept missing chances that previous teams didn't. The difference between game 4 and perhaps last year's WS - 1 grand slam swing by in the 7th, HRs that Tino, O'Neil and Brosius had a knack of getting.

I think that's the one thing about "winners". In the end their stats might not be better, but they seem the most comfortable in the toughest spots. Watching the team miss 2 chances with bases loaded to get a HIT, let alone something like a HR, showed me that the team was not as strong in that area.


The staff is in a very bad way and at their ages it doesn't look good for next year. George will spend, but is it there to buy? Weaver might improve with some Yankee camp time, but so would have Lilly. At least 4 of your big innings guys are almost done - Clemens, Moose, Wells, El Duque. Even Pettite seems to be on the south side of the slope.

And then you have to think of someone like Jason Arnold sitting in the A's farm system now. It's frustrating when you consider what Weaver gave the Yanks this season that was so important that it cost them a top prospect AND Ted Lilly.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Seth,
I was going to write a long response to your post, but I've decided against it because I simply don't agree with some areas of your assessment and just rather leave it at that. The Yankees had a great run and Yankees fans ought to be thankful for it because it's a run that baseball fans of other teams haven't experienced in several decades, the closest being A's fans in the early 70's with three championships in a row.




Crawdaddy

 

[Jerry Klawiter]

Go TWINS!
Great GAME A's

 

[JohnE]

So much for the third time being the charm.:frowning: Goodbye Oakland! I really didn't think the Twins would have the hitting to get past the A's.
Oh well the Twins vs the Angels should be a good series.

 

[Robert Crawford]

At the start of this season who would of thought that the Twins will be playing the Angels for a WS appearance? Of course, nobody which is why this is such a great game.




Crawdaddy

 

[Marvin]

The thought of Bud Selig having to go into the Twins locker room to present them with the World Series trophy would almost be enough to soothe the pain of the Yankees losing. Too bad the Expos didn't make it in the NL.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Don't get me wrong. I love the Yanks and appreciate the run, I've never said otherwise. It seemed to defy the odds that it went as long as it did. I just think the method with which the Boss tried to maintain the situation was a mistake, as almost all his interference has been. It made the Yanks less loveable to me to be honest, at least in comparison to the 95-98 clubs.
Let me add that I had the great privledge of seeing the Yanks win 2 games at The Ballpark on a hot Texas August weekend in the great 1998 season, with Cone and Wells getting the wins. You couldn't ask for much better a memory of a great team (at least if you don't live in NYC).
Anyway...who is it that Giambi will be watching advance without him???
Fold This!
You wanted fresh, you got it. Twins/Angels, first time ever unless I'm missing something.
In fairness to A's fans, you have to think that had Giambi stayed with the A's, both of them would be going to the 2nd round. Still, the A's won a lot more games than the Twins were probably bigger favs than the Yanks were against the Angels. Gotta love the MLB postseason, it always has plenty of unexpected outcomes, or at least paths to the outcome (Yanks had many unlikely plays that sent them to wins).

 

[MikeM]

Wow, what a tough loss for the A's. :frowning:
They were simply outplayed in today's game by the Twins. They made it interesting at the end, but I gotta give my hats off to the Twins.
Ah well...at least the Raiders are 4-0....

 

[Jerry Klawiter]

This will be some real good ball.
The Angels won 3 of 6 at the Metro Dome this year.
Twins in 1987 and 1991 win it all.
Will the first appearance since then be the same?
Get ready for some very entertaining baseball.

 

[Evan S]

Huge A's fan here. Gotta give credit where credit is due. The Twins bullpen was simply fantastic all series until Guardado's implosion in the bottom of the ninth today.

However, is there anyone else out there besides me who's going to second guess Art Howe's bringing in Koch in the top of the inning? When I saw him come in, I got a bad feeling. The Twins were doing nothing against Bradford, what's the harm of keeping him in there?

 

[Bill Harada]

Count me in with those who wanted Koch to saty in the bullpen. Bring in Rincon if Bradford is gettig tired, but Koch has been nothing but a 98mph anxiety attack all year. You don't pick up 10 wins as a closer by doing an Eckersleyesque 1-2-3 inning.

I though Joe Morgan brought up a good point when he questioned Art Howes decision not to shuffle his pitching order at the end of the year in order to get Zito and Mulder two starts each against the Twins. And I still don't understand why Howe has such a hard time playing small-ball in tight games like today's. What makes the Angels so tough is that they're always putting pressure on the defense. Scoscia seems to understand the need to play to a situation instead of always waiting for the 3-run HR.

Twins-Angels should be a great ALCS. I pity the NL champ if the Twins make it to the WS with home field.

 

[James RD]

I was at the game today. Congrats to the Twins.

I am also of the opinion that bringing Koch into the game in a non-save situation was a big mistake. The man always seems to blow it in those circumstances. Bradford was doing fine. They also had Mecir or Rincon. Lots of ifs.

Anyway...Go Angels!

 

[Mark Schermerhorn]

Yeah Twins! Somehow I knew the bottom of the 9th was going to be, uh, interesting. But they pulled it out. This team just will not die. I had picked the A's to win it in 5.

The ALCS should be really good, and I'll be at all the twins games (WS as well if we make it). Man that stadium is a POS, but with 56,000 screaming fans waving homer hankies, it's a lot of fun.

 

[MikeM]

However, is there anyone else out there besides me who's going to second guess Art Howe's bringing in Koch in the top of the inning?

Evan, it's the right move to bring in your closer in the 9th when you're tied or behind and you're playing at home. After the 9th, if behind (or tied), the home team can never go into a save opportunity to bring him in. So it's the right call.

Some will question whether or not to start Hudson 1st, and save having Minnesota from facing the two lefties twice, but I wont question it. The only reason people will bring that one up is because they lost the series. They started Mulder today and still didn't get it done, even with his dominance over their left handed batters.

Sometimes ya just gotta tip your hat to the other team. They outplayed the A's.