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air line pilots union pushing to arm US pilots

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Philip_G, Sep 26, 2001.

  1. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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    So what if the pilots receive the same training as Air Marshalls? They were pilots before so what makes you think you can turn them into law enforcement?
    At least when they go to staff for Air Marshalls they'll be choosing (hopefully) people from a law enforcement backgrounds. Why do we want to make Pilots into Sheriffs in the sky? They have enough to do in the cockpit me thinks.
    A gun in the hands of someone who is reluctant, unwilling or untrained to use it is extremely dangerous to everyone on the ground but even more so in a pressurized cabin 30,000 feet in the air.
    Why do you think when jail guards go into the general population area they check their guns outside? Much better to get beat or stabbed then shot at.
    Patrick
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    My DVD Collection
     
  2. Joseph S

    Joseph S Cinematographer

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    Why not just put a bomb on the plane in the first place? If it goes off course or the transponder is disabled the FAA just blows it to pieces and only those onboard suffer.
    Honestly, this is arming the pilots idea is really sketchy. The only way to prevent the events of 9/11 would be to have to have a separate entrance to the cockpit. There is still the risk of a pilot immitation issue, but you have absolutely no risk of a terrorist taking hostages to gain control of the flight.
    All they had were box cutters and took over 100+ passangers and crew. If we allow armed pilots on the plane there is still a great chance that he would not stop a group. Someone would get through to the controls. These folks were giving up their lives. If two or three die getting the gun from the pilot, I don't think they'll care any more. Furthermore, piercing the hub would likely mean most if not all passengers are still at great risk for death.
     
  3. Philip_G

    Philip_G Producer

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    as far as the pilot immitation, some of the large airport have already ordered the finger print scanner deals for secuirty doors. No more swipe cards. Slightly harder to imitate that.
     
  4. Paul Wu

    Paul Wu Stunt Coordinator

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    All passengers must take responsibility in thwarting a hijacking. Only then can we truely have a safe flight. Arming pilots and having sky marshals is only putting the responsibility onto another party. It seems that we want to put the responsibility of our saftey elsewhere. But if somebody's dumb enough to try and hijack a flight that I'm on, I'd be one of the first to rush the guy. I just hope the guy behind me get's him or my efforts will be for nothing.
    Let me be even more morbid. A pistol magazine holds 15 rounds, plus one in the chamber. So a hijacker can shoot 16 people before he is out of ammunition. If he has a submachine gun, that's 30 rounds in the magazine. If he just has a knife, he can maybe stab a couple of people before he's overcome by numbers. The layout of an airplane in not condusive to rushing, but a stream of attack along the aisle to the target, with the person behind climbing over the person in front as they go down. If he's got a bomb. Well so what. The minute he shouts "I am hijacking this plane I have a bomb" I know I'm dead. I sure as hell won't be sitting around hoping a sky marshal or the pilot would be able to come out and help.
    The question is, are you ready to die to save the life of others? Who's to say I'd even be able to get out of my seat? I won't know until the situation is at hand, and I may be just all talk, I hope I never find out.
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    Paul Wu
    "There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count and those that can't."
     
  5. Ryan Wright

    Ryan Wright Screenwriter

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  6. Philip_G

    Philip_G Producer

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    Ryan made some good points IMO.
     
  7. Jin E

    Jin E Second Unit

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  8. Tom-G

    Tom-G Screenwriter

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  9. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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    I heard on the news that President Bush is not in favour of arming pilots so I doubt it'll happen.
     
  10. James Q Jenkins

    James Q Jenkins Stunt Coordinator

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    You people who say they'd attack hijackers remember this.
    In the past, it has been very rare that hijacking has caused massive deaths among passengers. The events of the September 11 atrocity were unprecedented, even among hijacking. Until September 11, you could assume that if the plane were hijacked, you'd end up witha long damn detour, but eventually on the ground in an airport, where the hijackers would depart/negotiate, then eventually you'd go home. Stay in your seat and no-one has to die. Are you going to risk your children being orphans to save a couple days ona trip and an unpleasant adventure? Remember, this type of attack using hijacked aircraft was unthinkable before September 11.
    Now, after September 11, I hijacking will never be thought of in the same light again. I believe that your "kill them f**kers!" mentality would be very common during a hijacking in the future. And I think the would-be hijackers know it. Remember what those heroes did over Pittsburgh. If any of the people on the WTC or Pentagon planes knew what was the plan you can be damn sure that they would have done something similar!
    I think a new branch of the FBI or US Marshall Service is a better solution than arming pilots.
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    -JQJ
    [Edited last by James Q Jenkins on September 27, 2001 at 09:19 AM]
     
  11. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    All I can say is I feel sorry for the poor stewards and stewardesses. With people being armed on both sides, they will take the brunt of it. They better make those planes bullet proof then too!
    orangeman
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  12. Scott Dautel

    Scott Dautel Second Unit

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    Remember, US Marshalls on planes was tried in the 70's and dropped for many reasons, not the least of which were cost, job burnout and the concern over "itchy trigger fingers". I whole heartedly think this is not a long term solution. IMHO, The very best thinking today brings together a combinatioin of measures including:
    1) Fortified cockpit doors
    2) video monitors in cockpit with cameras in back
    3) arming trained pilots with some type of non lethal, non-projectile "stun gun" (WITH biometric trigger locks to prevent use by anyone other than those trained.
    Imagine a "Laser Stun Gun" that could paralyse muscles, but not affect heart, vision etc. Now stop imagining ... such technology exists and was successfully tested several months ago. The company to watch and invest in is HSV Technologies of Lakeside, CA . Once again, American ingenuity at it's finest.
    For the longer term ... remote piloting from the ground is feasible today in emergency situations, but will require decades to replace the nations aircraft with modern fly-by-wire technology.
    Scott
     
  13. Michael Vasquez

    Michael Vasquez Auditioning

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    I think just about all of you have been watching too many "action hero saves the day with his expert marksmanship" movies.
    Bank vault type cockpits are a long ways off in the future, so I don't see it as relevant to discuss the pilots ability to not have to be involved, he will have to be involved.
    Plus you are kidding yourself if you think one training course, even a good one, will enable the pilots to become efficient marksmen in a stressful situation. I have seen people who are PROFESSIONALS in law enforcement, who have to qualify on a REGULAR basis, unload full clips at suspects in tense situations and the suspect is not hit once. I don't understand why we are even considering the idea of arming pilots.
    Why not just make it harder to get on a plane with a weapon, pilot or otherwise? It wouldn't be that hard if the airlines and the American public were really interested in safety. For instance:
    1. no carry-ons. none. If you have medicine you need, toys for the kids, or baby formula, then you put it in a clear zip lock bag and go through a special line to get your things thoroughly checked, and not by some half-asleep high school drop out, by someone properly trained and motivated to keep weapons and bombs off the plane.
    2. Real security checks at airports to board the plane, not the half-ast joke that we have had for many years.
    3. Real honest-for-goodness security in the airport, actual background checks of baggage handlers, janitors, skycaps, pilots, etc. As we've come to see lately, the airlines and airports were ridiculously unsecure.
    I am getting really worried about this attitude that seems to exist to rush into new "solutions" without trying to figure out if they would really help, or just provide us with a false sense of security.
     
  14. Tom-G

    Tom-G Screenwriter

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    I caught a segment on CNN recently that suggested each plane be equipped with equipment which would allow remote control of the plane from the ground. I really like this idea. If precautions could be implemented where the remote crew can be warned of terrorists, control of the plane would be given to someone not in the plane and negate any terroristic actions. This would have saved the lives of the people on Flight 93 and sounds like a very good idea. The security on the ground could be a lot better at preventing terrorists from taking over via remote control.
    I know there isn't going to be a fool-proof plan, but America must attempt to implement some safety precautions.
    ------------------
    As for the bad rap about the characters--hey, I've seen space operas that put their emphasis on human personalities and relationships. They're called "Star Trek" movies. Give me transparent underwater cities and vast hollow senatorial spheres any day. --Roger Ebert on The Phantom Menace
     
  15. Ryan Wright

    Ryan Wright Screenwriter

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  16. AjayM

    AjayM Screenwriter

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  17. BrianB

    BrianB Producer

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  18. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    I believe the prison system has a more rigourous security system than that of any airport. The prison guards all have to have a certain level of clearance, police checks done etc. The fact is, weapons still find their way inside prisons one way or another. What makes us think that we can keep weapons off planes. I agree that security should be beefed up because it is non-existant up to this point. Let us take a lesson from Israel (El Al) as they have the safest airlines and best security as far as I know. But you can only take it so far. Nothing guarantees weapons not being on planes.
    Hey, maybe we can teleport ourselves around the country though.... http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/Forum2/HTML/005264.html
     
  19. Scott Strang

    Scott Strang Screenwriter

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    Airline pilots are professionals. They have to be able to remain calm during adverse circumstances. For this reason, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to "pack heat". Hell everyday they're entrusted with not only an airliner that's valued at > $40 million, but also with lives in the plane and potentially on the ground.
    Aren't some airline pilots retired from the USAF or Navy where they served as military pilots?
    From what I'm reading in some of these posts, it appears that many of you have never before fired a pistol or rifle
    in your entire lives. This is shocking to me.
    Everyone should at one time learn to properly use a firearm; it's not a bad thing to learn.
    Since I grew up in the south, firearms have been, and always will be, a part of my life. Granted I don't have a massive firearm collection (can't afford to buy those and all of the other stuff I want)and the ones I do have were inherited. But my dad always took me different places to practice and I was absolutely forbidden to touch any of them without his direct supervision and I wasn't stupid enough to test that rule.
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    We are the citizens of the United States of America. Resistance is futile. We CANNOT be stopped so don't bother trying.
     
  20. Jin E

    Jin E Second Unit

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