Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 4 (2016-2017) (2 Viewers)

[Jeff Cooper]

Wondering, since Fitz has now built a machine that can provide bodies for those in the Framework if perhaps Hope will be given a body enabling her to have a life in the real world.

Well the rules of writing 101 dictate that the machine has to be destroyed asap. Otherwise they've created an omnipotent situation where anyone can be resurrected at any time which completely removes any sort of consequence. Like the magic tribble blood in Star Trek. It's extremely bad writing. I'm sure there's some sort of professional term for that, but i'm no literary expert.

 

[Dheiner]

Daisy: "OK, I understand what you are thinking, Mac. What would you like me to tell your real-life, pregnant fiancee?"

Problem solved.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Well the rules of writing 101 dictate that the machine has to be destroyed asap. Otherwise they've created an omnipotent situation where anyone can be resurrected at any time which completely removes any sort of consequence.

Which then gets even boring, because if you know the machine has to be destroyed, then you're just waiting for something to happen that you know has to.

 

[Nelson Au]

Yes, but isn't it the not knowing if the heroes will be able to blow up the machine before they themselves are killed or worse, the Rigel System is destroyed that makes it interesting. Seems like a time honored plot where you know they will win in the end but you don't know if they might not make it. On the other hand, in today's TV market, seems no character is safe from being killed off. Unless you're Ward.

 

[Ahab]

Two things:

-They're gonna use the machine to bring Ward back.

-It's not really his daughter. It's a computer simulation based on who knows what. It wouldn't be a person that was brought back to life. It would be a ceeepy simulation of someone who's dead.

Bringing Ward back would be a good thing.
I agree that Hope is a simulation. That doesn't entail creepiness. If it is an accurate simulation of the real person then it would be good to give her a human body. Mac certainly doesn't think she is creepy. He should know.

We seem to be viewing this show from completely opposite pov's. None of this show is real. The 'real world' in the show is as imaginary as the Framework. The characters in the Framework believe their world is as 'real' as the 'real' characters believe their world is 'real'.
In reality it is all just make believe. Yet that make believe can have real world consequences. I think that is one of the main themes being examined in these last few episodes.

 

[Ahab]

Well the rules of writing 101 dictate that the machine has to be destroyed asap. Otherwise they've created an omnipotent situation where anyone can be resurrected at any time which completely removes any sort of consequence. Like the magic tribble blood in Star Trek. It's extremely bad writing. I'm sure there's some sort of professional term for that, but i'm no literary expert.

The machine which exists in the real world apparently could only be created from within the Framework (which is an imaginary world). To me, that is the most interesting point. Doesn't strike me as extremely bad writing.

 

[dana martin]

Annnnd they kept it going this week with "Fake News".



Yeah, as the viewer, that was annoying. I was half expecting Daisy to just quake him into the portal. That would have been the obvious solution, and even better, generated some actual conflict for the real-world stories, something that is a + for writers.

In terms of the characters mindset though, it kind of makes sense. Even if you know it's not real, if it feels much better than what the alternative is, even if it's real, if reality sucks would you choose to go back? This issue was also addressed brilliantly in 'The Matrix' with the below scene, and later when he said "If Morpheus has told us the truth, we would have told him to shove that red pill up his ass!"

exactly the spot in the film that came to mind as soon as Mac said he wasn't going back, my thinking is that something will happen in the mainframe, and she will die there and want to come out of the Mainframe to get Ophelia for it.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

If Daisy didn't want to push Mac into the portal using force (which I still think was the most logical, reasonable thing for her to do), she could have also reminded Mac that once they succeed at stopping Aida, the framework would be destroyed, so Mac wouldn't be spending his future with his fake-daughter anyway.

 

[dana martin]

If Daisy didn't want to push Mac into the portal using force (which I still think was the most logical, reasonable thing for her to do), she could have also reminded Mac that once they succeed at stopping Aida, the framework would be destroyed, so Mac wouldn't be spending his future with his fake-daughter anyway.

no he wont be spending it with anyone, he will be dead, lost in the dying electrical mess

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Yes, I believe that's what I was saying.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

I think it makes the most sense for Fitz to be the one to talk Mack out of the framework. Mack and FItz bonded when Fitz was recovering from his brain damage in Season 2. Now Fitz has the guilt of what he did in the framework and will be able to use that to help Mack cope with the difference between Reality and Simulation. Kind of taking on reverse roles from Mack & Fitz of season 2.

 

[NeilO]

So, Aida/Ophelia programmed in. courtesy of the Darkhold, just about every inhuman power she could get. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned - Fitz should have known better, especially when dealing with someone with the maturity of a toddler.

I was surprised by the reappearance of The Ghost Rider at the end. I guess they will need him to take down Aida.

I've no idea whether we will lose both Mack and Yo-Yo or what they are going to do with them.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

There's a lot to wrap up before the end.

Loved the banter between Coulson and May

Will this be it? Do we know if there's another season yet?

 

[NeilO]

There's a lot to wrap up before the end.

Loved the banter between Coulson and May

Will this be it? Do we know if there's another season yet?

Yes, the banter was great, especially Coulson's changing story.

No news on next season yet, but we should know soon.

 

[Mark-P]

This is possibly my favorite current TV show. I do like that they explained more what the framework memories were like. They said definitely not like a dream; but that another entire very real lifetime is now in their heads. They appear to be sorting it out as they go. Fitz is the best. He now understands how he was manipulated, but also knows that everything he did was his own doing and it's a side of himself that he will have to accept. It's a fascinating concept: how different might each of us be if we were raised in a different environment? Who knows what terrible things we might be capable of if circumstances were different?

 

[Hanson]

The Framework memories explanation reminded me of the ST:TNG episode, The Inner Light.

 

[Josh Dial]

The Framework memories explanation reminded me of the ST:TNG episode, The Inner Light.

I was thinking of that exact thing, too. I wonder if they could program the speed on the fly, and make it so Mack lives his entire life in, say 15 minutes of real time. Then he might exit on his own.

 

[Dheiner]

I was thinking of that exact thing, too. I wonder if they could program the speed on the fly, and make it so Mack lives his entire life in, say 15 minutes of real time. Then he might exit on his own.

No good. If he dies there he dies for real.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Pretty good episode. I thought to myself several times throughout that they must have been reading this thread, as they directly addressed a lot of the questions brought up by us. Good to see that they just aren't sloppily writing things without thinking of the obvious questions.

Yo-yo I couldn't care less if she doesn't make it; her character has always been kind of annoying to me. Mack I would be sad to see go, but I suspect he'll be fine, otherwise all this setup of saving him would be kind of pointless.

Ghost Rider kind of was the only let down for me for the episode. He's played his part, his arc is done. We don't need to bring all that back.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

Ghost Rider kind of was the only let down for me for the episode. He's played his part, his arc is done. We don't need to bring all that back.

Coulson said it himself - "we'll see him again"