After the fact...1014Tx review (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

If I buy a 1015, I will use it as a pre/pro for a couple of reasons:

1. My NAD T763 has a great amp section that I'm not willing to let go to waste.
2. My MBQuart mains are 4 ohms and I've heard that Pio's have problems with 4 ohm loads while the NAD breezes through it.

 

[BrentCook]

The 1014tx has been tested to put out MORE than it's rated power output, unlike most consumer priced recievers. There were some links floating around to the lists that prove this, but I can't find them right now.

In fact, one of the good things about a THX rating on an amp is that you know it is going to put out rated power.

You heard what you heard, but I can only assume your other amp is putting out a lot more than 120w per channel that the 1014tx has been tested and proved to put out.

- a 1014tx owner

 

[lee ison]

the only validty it has is for you and you alone wether I like it or not , this is hardly a scientific or logical evaluation ,under dubious circumstance relying on several variables, if you don't like it(the rec,) that is fine , but to imply it is somehow lacking in ability only applies to these circumstances and testing methods?, hardly fair or unbiased. A smaller or a larger room with more eff. speakers will probably yeild different results.I was in no way launching a personal attack on you , just pointing out these variables because more people than you or me read these posts., if I offended you ,I am sorry

 

[John Garcia]

I try out every piece of equipment in this same setup. Same CDP, same speakers, in the same position, with the same interconnects and speaker wires. The ONLY thing that changed is the amp. I know how my amp sounds in my room, and I have compared quite a few receivers and amps in this particular setup. The amp section is about what I'd expect from a ~$500 receiver. My PM7200 integrated is a dual monoblock design and is class A for the first 25w, then switching to AB mode for a total output of 95w @ 8 Ohms (it tested to actually put out 105w). Just by swapping the interconnects and wires back and forth, I can easily hear differences, and I do it more than once. OF COURSE it's going to be different in a different setup, but this is what I hear, in MY room, in MY setup, that I listen to pretty much every day.

If you want to talk about numbers, I highly doubt many people out there who own 1014s and 1015s are testing them and providing numbers to back up what they hear. They are just saying "It's great", and for the price, it is a good reciever. In any case, I don't know where you got that I said that I didn't like it, because I did not. I merely pointed out at what point it started to distort, and that it has a flat overall sound, which coincidentally, more than one person said they had the same impression of this receiver.

THX select is designed for rooms that are 2000 CF and below, so it will put out ref levels only under those circumstances. My bedroom is smaller than that, and my main room is much larger than that.

 

[lee ison]

I think I stated IF you don't like

 

[Dick Boneske]

What you DIDN'T do is listen to the 1014 and your amplifier on the same system (speakers, CDP, interconnects) without knowing which one was connected.

I challenge you--or anyone on this board to compare amps in your system without knowing which one they are listening to. Any other method has no meaning whatsoever. It's like tasting your favorite beer out of the container it came in versus another one you don't like. Try that sometime in unmarked containers without knowing which is which. You will be amazed!!!

You can do the same when comparing two amps. One way is to position both speakers immediately adjacent to each other. Hook up one channel of your amp to one speaker. Hook up one channel of the amp to be tested to the other speaker. Hook a monaural source to the input of the appropriate channel of each amp. Set the levels for the same output from both speakers--you can hit the mute button on each amp alternately--to help with this. After this setup is complete, stand back and have someone else switch amps. You will find it very difficult or impossible to determine which is the 1014 and which is yours.

It gets very tiring hearing people trash a certain amplifier or other component when they haven't done a thing to prove their statements. A simple test like the one above quiets many who are SURE they know the answers.

 

[John S]

I've compared it in my system to other AVR's, and when pushed at reference levels in a moderately large room the 1014 is very strained, I was afraid it was going to blow a speaker.

If you don't push it hard, you certainly could not tell which is which, so in your test scenerio, definelty make the volume level way way high for the test.

The problem with the simple test is they usually do not run the volume level high enough to actually reveal the more powerfull amp. Aside from power / headroom, I agree not much difference at all between amps.

I also somewhat tire of people that think a $300 product can compete with a $1000+ products power wise.

I have been installing on the side for a couple of years, and nearly every customer seems to think an under $1000 budget will give them scare people performance no matter what the dimensions of their room are. Reality is quite different from that perspective.

 

[Dick Boneske]

The test I described is one you can run yourself relatively easily. You can run any volume level you want and compare power output.

My point is that listening to your system after a component change is not a valid way to evaluate that component. It is difficult if not impossible to avoid hearing what your brain tells you to expect.

Yes, there are $300 amplifiers that will perform as well as $1,000 ones. We all strive to pick the best value for the dollar. This is why direct A/B testing is so valuable. Many people chose to spend hundreds of dollars on interconnecting wires. How many of them do you think bother to do an A/B test to evaluate the wires?

The above is why people like Bose NEVER have competing speakers or systems in their company stores. Direct comparisons don't lie.

Please take this constructively and use it to your advantage instead of looking for reasons not to prove the performance of any component instead of guessing.

 

[John Garcia]

I've been doing audio stuff for almost 15 years. I think I can tell the difference when I hear it, without having to be blindfolded. I'm not going to get into the whole DBT, since you do NOT need a DBT for every freaking comparison to be validated. Go read the magazines, they DO NOT DO DBTs when they write a review of the gear, so are they all invalid too?

My brain isn't lying to me when I quite obviously hear distortion. This is called REALITY, and I, you, and Joe schmoe would hear the same thing in a DBT. You CANNOT run the same volume, because if I turn up the 1014 to the point where it starts to clip, and my integrated does not clip at that same SPL, then the test already proves there is a difference. This is exactly what I heard...

There are certain stores that do have Bose along with other brands, though Bose is usually isolated in another room, but you can certainly walk to the next room and listen to something worth that same amount of money.

I can hear the difference between Bose and other brands too, do I need to do a DBT to make sure?

I'm a wine drinker. If you asked me to identify between two different good Cabs, I probably couldn't, but I COULD tell you which one tasted better without subjecting it to any testing.

 

[Victor Ferguson]

Im with the folks who think the Pioneer is a good value. I also agree with the People on here who think the Pioneer 1014/1015's amp sections are over rated. It would not come close to competing with alot of other amps rated at the same output, a perfect example comes to mind. The Pioneer 1014/1015 is rated at 110x7 and so is a H/K 7300. Do you honestly think Pioneer is rating the actual output or that it can compete with a H/K 7300. To many people have bought into the hype of the 1014/1015 and now home theater noobs are on here proclaiing how it outshines other amps when they just don't know any better. I had a good thread on here recently that included some Pioneer test results and showed pretty clearly they don't advertise power ratings like they should.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=240263

I aslo tire of people getting on here and giving someone a hard time because they gave a review of thier reciever that they didnt like. This seems to happen alot whenever the 1014/1015 gets brought up. I think this gets back to noobs that just don't know any better.

 

[James Phung]

The 1014/1015 is in another league compared to the 815. I'm guessing the weight difference (22lbs vs 34lbs) is due to the bigger amps in the 1014/1015. HT Magazine tested the elite 52tx (which the 1014 is a clone of) to be 115wpc with 5 channels driven which is what I base the 1014's output to. Though, I'm not saying its better than higher end models like the 7300. Though, I was surprised to see the HK 1005 (70x7) was measured to be 31wpc with 5 channels driven.

 

[Dick Boneske]

This is in response to John Garcia. John, I am not trying to be adversarial in this discussion. Audio and home theater is meant to be fun. I'm trying to explain how, in my experience, comparing similar items is very tricky. I don't care if it's beer, wine, speakers, amplifiers, or brands of gasoline. People have very strong opinions on these items--usually formed in their minds without direct comparison. How often have you had someone tell you they get 2-3 more miles per gallon with one brand of gasoline than another? When they actually calculate mileage, without exception, there is no difference from one to the other.

I also have been an audio enthusiast--for more than 40 years. Dynaco, McIntosh, H.H. Scott, Hafler, and other components were my favorites. In the '60's, we had "speaker parties" where we would line up our best on one end of a room and use a multi switch similar to that in audio stores to compare speakers. Our wives didn't like that so much. What I liked, was that my AR-3a's sounded better than all the Allisons, KLH's, Advents, Rectilinears, Electrovoices, Altec Lansings, and others we compared.

Now, with your amplifier comparisons, you insist that the SPL you could reach with your reference amplifier could not be reached with the 1014. Without a decibel meter, how do you know what that SPL is? The db readings on the readout or relative volume control position of typical receivers don't mean anything.

I believe that most all receiver brands are comparable in performace for similar price ranges--Yamaha, H/K, Sony, Denon, Pioneer, etc. Removal of the covers will show you many brands share the same components. The $1,000+ receivers have better power supplies and better headroom because of that. I believe the 1014 is a good value at $300, but my son's & son-in-law's Sony's are also.

Hopefully, some of the above makes sense to you.

 

[John Garcia]

My integrated is $500, and that is just about the MSRP price of the 1014. I have NO opinion about the 1014, beacuse I never planned to own it - I was more curious than anything, and I'm more inclined to actually go out and buy something to hear it for myself. I actually wanted to like it, and as I have said, I completely agree that it isn't a BAD receiver at all, and certainly not for the $300 this guy is paying for it. I've owned Sonys before, including the top models in the DE line in the $500-$600 range, and I was never really impressed with them. The ES line is a different story, though still not on my list of receivers to own.

Now, my integrated is rated at 95w x 2 and weighs 27lbs. The 1014 weighs about 35lbs, but has a lot more going on in it. One of the two huge heatsinks in my integrated is larger than the one in the 1014 for all it's channels, and that is just for one channel. It's not really a fair comparison between the two, but that's not what I was after. I don't really need an SPL meter to tell me which was louder, because I cranked my integrated MUCH louder than the 1014, without question, and was still not getting the same distortion. My integrated has no display whatsoever, so there is no way to know what "level" it was at; it should suffice to say it was LOUD, much louder than I would ever listen at.

I touched on the analog vs digital with this receiver earlier, and now I'm curious from owners. Could someone compare a CD or DVD player in both stereo analog and digital (direct, no MCACC) and turn it up to a somewhat excessive level (whatever you feel comfortable with) and compare? If you have an SPL meter, please try to compare at the same SPL between the two with the same passage of material. I'm concerned that this particular receiver may have something wrong with it's analog section, which could be a big reason why I heard what I did. It's still under warranty too, so if something is wrong with it, I want to get it replaced for this guy.

I won't be revisiting this receiver until next week, but I will be trying it out on other analog inputs and comparing to digital to see if all inputs do the same thing. I only used the CD input, so perhaps there is something wrong with that particular input?

Some time back, there was a similar debate regarding the 811 and the 41Tx, being "clones" of each other and that the 811 was THE receiver to own. So, I was in a shop one day and decided to give the 41Tx a listen. The sound was very much similar to what I hear with the 41Tx, digital or analog, so I do have to say I was not surprised or unfamiliar with that sound, despite it being a year and a half+ or so ago. It's sound didn't appeal to me. Interestingly enough, I was looking for speakers about a year ago, and I auditioned KEFs on a 59Tx at a different store. MUCH more power, a TON of it, but that same characteristic sound was still more or less there.

 

[gene c]

John, with my 1014 hooked up to a Pioneer 563 dvd player-2ch analog to the DVD, optical to TV/SAT and multi-ins connected with the 563 set to 2 ch out-"Direct" was selected and Athena Point 5 speakers (4" mids and a 1' tweeter mounted in a plastic inclosure) which were set to "o" via the ch/sel button and GBYBR by EJ as the source material, here's what I heard. While the analog and digital both "appeared" to be the same strength (no spl meter), the bass output in analog was noticably less. Both also seemed louder through the left channel. Analog was a bit brighter but digital was more pleasing to the ear. When switched to multi-in, the right channel was equal to the left one and stereo separation was much better. Bass output was still lacking, though. Multi-in was by far the better sounding of the three. This was far from scientific, but I hope it helped. On a side note, I was going to stay away from the "tit-for-tat" part of this thread, but I will say this. Anytime a knowledgable member, particularly a Wayne or two, a couple of John's and even some Chris's, start or reply to a thread of interest to me, I listen. Regardless of what the product is, I'm bound to learn something. While I do agree that most opinions (including mine) should be taken with a grain of salt, some others do cary a little more weight to me.

 

[John Garcia]

Thanks Gene!! Next time you're looking for a receiver, let me know I have good local connections.