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AFI’s Top 100 Films List Forum Challenge (Part 3) (1 Viewer)

Seth Paxton

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Probably the same way that Barb Wire took Casablanca, added a hot chick to it, and sucked all that is suckable.
Hot, naked or near-naked chicks just don't go with rip-offs of classics I guess...
Just think of DePalma's version of Vertigo...Body Double.
 

george kaplan

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I just saw A Streetcar Named Desire.
Let me preface my comments with "we're all entitled to our opinions".
I didn't care much for this movie. I've heard various films criticized as being too stagey (i.e., too much like a play), and even when I saw that in a movie, I've never felt like it was a real problem. But with Streetcar, I did feel most of the time that I was watching a play, not a film. And I found it distracting.
I guess I see the importance of Brando's acting, which, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, was mostly pushing the envelope, willing to let it all out and yell and scream and rant and rave. I'll admit that most of what preceded this performance didn't push those limits, but then again I think of exceptions like Cagney in White Heat two years earlier. In any case, as groundbreaking as it might have been, I far prefer his more subtle acting in the Godfather.
The biggest problem with this film (for me at least) was I found it boring. I had recorded it on replay tv, and it took me days to watch, cause I could never watch for more than 15 minutes at a time. I'd get to the point where I was tempted to fast-forward, and I instead turned it off and came back later.
Let me be clear. I'm not saying this is a horrible movie or anything, just that I think it's overrated and not my cup of tea.
One question:
Spoiler:Did Stanley actually rape Blanche?
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[Edited last by george kaplan on September 07, 2001 at 10:00 PM]
 

Dome Vongvises

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Sure Barb Wire ripped off Casablanca.
Glad I originally thought of it
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Robert Crawford

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Occasionally, I like to go back and read threads again that I consider very informative and the "AFI 100 Challenge" happens to be one of those threads. While reading some comments from Scott and Seth about the deep background shots from films such as "Wuthering Heights", "Citizen Kane" and "The Best Years of Our Lives" it occurred to me that all three films have one common element and that is Gregg Toland. Who was Gregg Toland? He was perhaps the most innovative cinematographer that ever was in Hollywood. He worked with some of the best directors in the business. Directors such as his most frequent collaborator William Wyler, John Ford, Howard Hawks, and a young Orson Welles. The deep-focus technique wasn't developed by Welles but instead was an innovation of Toland who used it in several films he shot, some were the beforehand mentioned of "Wuthering Heights", "Citizen Kane", and "The Best Years of Our Lives". Unfortunately, Toland died at the age of 44 from a heart attack but his work lives on in such films as the following:
[*]Dead End[*]Wuthering Heights[*]Intermezzo[*]The Westerner[*]The Grapes of Wrath[*]The Long Voyage Home[*]Citizen Kane[*]Ball of Fire[*]The Little Foxes[*]December 7th[*]The Outlaw[*]Song of the South[*]The Best Years of Our Lives[*]The Bishop's Wife

The film was a little long, but after a slow start became very engrossing. I was especially impressed by the depth of some of the camera shots -- the scene where Homer shows off his new piano-playing skills to Al while Fred is in the deep background talking on the pay phone with Al's daughter was a great piece of camera work. It's amazing to me that so much storytelling could be accomplished using the Academy aspect ratio. I wonder how much Wyler was influenced by Wells' Citizen Kane for these shots?

Scott,
The question should be how much Welles was influenced by Toland and Wyler. Checkout some earlier works of both craftsmen and you will see similar camara shots utilized later in "Citizen Kane".


Crawdaddy

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Scott Merryfield

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Robert,
Thanks for the insight. My speculation was based on the fact that Citizen Kane was made in 1941, while The Best Years Of Our Lives came out in 1946. Toland being the cinematographer on both films certainly explains the similarity between the films.
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Hugh Jackes

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Singin' in the Rain
This is one of those ones that I was dreading.
Gene Kelly is a silent movie icon who career has been tied to his constant co-star, a woman that he despises, Jean Hagen. Publicity hacks have linked the two romantically, besides professionally, so he is stuck with her. Because her voice is annoyingly squeaky, with a thick New Yawk (Bronx? Brooklyn?) accent, she never opens her mouth in public. Kelly is the spokesman for the duo.
Meanwhile, Kelly meets, and is smitten by, Debbie Reynolds (well who wouldn't be?).
Donald O'Conner provides comic relief as Kelly's musician/best friend. His job is to play mood music on the set as Kelly and Kagen play out cinematic romance in front of the cameras. Did this job really exist?
When "talkies" hit Hollywood, Kagen's voice and accent just won't do for the kind of period piece romances that they headline. The first talkie they make together is a huge disaster in test screenings. O'Conner realizes what they need to do, he invents two Hollywood mainstays: musicals (adding song and dance to the bomb) and lip syncing (Reynold's dubs Kagen's speaking and singing voice). (Didn't Hollywood recently do the reverse, strip the songs out of a musical that didn't work and try to make it just a comedy? As I recall, and I don't remember the name of that movie, it was a bomb.)
Anyway, the revamped movie is a hit at test screenings and Kagen, who up until this point has demonstrated the intelligence of a tree stump, suddenly becomes a shrewd diva who understands every jot and tittle of her contract. She demands that Reynolds, who has been promised a starring role of her own, continue to voice her in a string of musicals that she, Kagen, and Kelly will make.
The highlight of the movie was early on, when O'Connor manically sang and danced his way through "Make 'em Laugh". A marvelous bit of entertainment; full of energy, comedy, and amazing dancing talent. It compared favorably with almost any short piece of comedy from any era.
Then, toward the end of the movie, Gene Kelly started singing and dancing his way through the obligatory huge production number, "Gotta Dance", which drained all of the life and enjoyment out of the film. That thing must have been about 4-and-a-half hours long.
(Question: Must every song in a musical be an exercise in bad grammar? "Singin' in the Rain," "Make 'em Laugh," and "Gotta Dance")?
The first two-thirds of the movie was B+ material. From the start of the "Gotta Dance" production number to the end was C- stuff.
Seen84
Not seen:16
Should see again:14
[Edited last by Hugh Jackes on September 10, 2001 at 09:19 AM]
[Edited last by Hugh Jackes on September 12, 2001 at 09:56 AM]
 

george kaplan

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Then, toward the end of the movie, Gene Kelly started singing and dancing his way through the obligatory huge production number, "Gotta Dance", which drained all of the life and enjoyment out of the film. That thing must have been about 4-and-a-half hours long.
I have to agree with this. Maybe it's just Gene Kelly. Both Singin' in the Rain & An American in Paris have this flaw. These big 'balletic' endings just ruin these films for me.
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Walter Kittel

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Gasp! A musical that has singing and dancing. Oh the unmitigated horror of it all. :) :)
Okay, I'm mostly fooling around but I'll disagree and state that I loved both of these Kelly musicals ( Singin' In The Rain and An American In Paris ) as they stand. While I do understand the complaint that these segments derail the narrative ( such that it is ); narrative and storyline are often comprised of the flimsiest of excuses to connect a series of routines together in a musical. So I really don't have any expectations in these areas of the film when watching an 'old school' musical. For me, these films are all about the music and the joy and exhuberance of the performers. Gene Kelly delivers the goods in both of these sequences.
- Walter.
[Edited last by Walter Kittel on September 10, 2001 at 06:46 PM]
 

Scott Dill

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These were among my least favorites for the same reason. I like musicals, but I expect the songs to be integrated into the story like THE WIZARD OF OZ, SOUND OF MUSIC and my favorite RHPS.
 

george kaplan

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For me it's not so much that it ruins the narrative (although it does), but rather that I find it long and boring. If Kelly had broken into a 20 minute Beatles medley with athletic (as opposed to balletic) dancing, I'd be all for it. :)
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Hugh Jackes

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Hi Walter Kittel, nice to talk with you again.
George Kaplan stole my thunder. It wasn't that there was singing and dancing in the movie. The earlier numbers in the movie ranged from mildly dull to very entertaining (Make 'em Laugh) and I did not mind them (I thoroughly enjoyed Make 'em Laugh). Most did not derail the story or detract from the movie. My gripe was specifically about that long drawn out number at the end. It was endless, mindless, pointless, and excruciating.
 

george kaplan

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I haven't seen it, but I'm starting to think that I'd like the movie "That's Entertainment". Anyone who's seen this know if it has complete versions of certain numbers like Singin' in the Rain and Make Em Laugh?
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Seth Paxton

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I would agree that the Gotta Dance sequence is almost out of place within Singin in the Rain. I really think it feels somewhat shoe-horned in, almost obligatory.
There is much more warmth, truth, and heart in the Make Em Laugh and Singin in the Rain numbers.
It's true that a musical barely needs to show allegence to the paper-thin narrative, but the various numbers should show allegence to each other. When the ending sequence is far less dynamic than several numbers that have come before, yet run 3-4 times as long, that is anti-climatic.
Why not instead run the Singing sequence even longer and shorten the final bit way up. Thus emphasizing the anchor status of that bit midway through the film, with all other numbers hanging off to the side in support of it.
 

Walter Kittel

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Hugh, what's up? It has been awhile since I viewed Singin' In The Rain so I don't feel comfortable debating the merits of its finale ( other than the fact that I recall enjoying it very much :) .) Since the films were directed by different individuals ( Stanley Donen & Gene Kelly - Singin' In The Rain and Vincente Minnelli - An American In Paris ) I'm not sure how relevant this is, but my response to the similar criticism of the finale of An American In Paris is as follows...
The extended sequence near the close of An American in Paris works as a summary of the film's storyline. Each of the vignettes in this sequence is told in a manner that reflects the style or motif of a specific painter. For me, this sequence is very relevant and works as a creative precis of the film, if you will. You might ask, is such a thing necessary for the film's uncomplicated storyline?; but I have no such concerns. For me, it serves as a very artful way to close the film that highlights one of the the key strengths of director Minnelli ( namely art and production design ).
I'd have to watch SITR again to comment on its finale, but I don't recall that it featured such an artifice; just enjoyable singing and dancing. BTW, I agree that some of the earlier numbers ( based upon my shaky memory ) were stronger.
- Walter.
[Edited last by Walter Kittel on September 13, 2001 at 10:23 PM]
 

Edwin Pereyra

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For me, An American In Paris was unmemorable. I really don't care for films with staged performances (with a deliberate feel to it) and Paris is one of them. I think this is why The Red Shoes didn't appeal to me as much as it did for Scorcese. :) Hmmm, the latter is a good candidate for my Film Greats series.
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To some extent, Singin' In The Rain is guilty of doing this, as well. But I will have to revisit it one more time just to be fair to the film.
~Edwin
 

george kaplan

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I just saw Network. An excellent film all around. It has however, become dated. But I don't really mean that as a criticism so much as a comment.
Almost everything I have to say is a spoiler, so I won't use the spoiler tag, just give a generic warning.
SPOILERS AHEAD.
The first way in which it's dated is the idea of 3 all-powerful networks. I'm old enough to remember that, but by the time my son is old enough to watch this movie, that'll make about as much sense to him as IBM punch cards.
The other thing is that almost all of what happens was broad satire of rididulous things, that have been surpassed by what's really happened!
The only thing that hasn't come to pass is the assassination, but you know that wasn't really done as a ratings grabber so much as to get rid of a problem. And if you think of the networks as largely representing the current power holders, the idea of them killing people in the name of profit still works. It doesn't matter if it's network tv, or railroad barons or coca-cola or IBM or Big Oil or Microsoft or whichever group will be the rich elite tomorrow. Money is the root of all evil, and will continue to be so. Of course, rabid, fanatic, fundamentalist religious extremism is pretty damned evil too
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Rachael B

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I'm waiting for my Tivo to find the THE JAZZ SINGER. I've looking for a copy of the LD to no avail for 3 months. Search after search brings up TJS with Neil D, ugh! I'm actually considering trying to find it on VHS, yuk! I want to finish this thang. I'm leaning over the finish line....
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Dome Vongvises

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The Searchers
Film Grade: B
From all the things I've read about this movie, I was expecting it to be one of the greatest westerns made. I was far from disappointed, but I couldn't help but feel that the movie could've been a lot more. The five years over which the movie takes place whipped by a little too fast (could've drawn it out some more). In a way, I was expecting a western "epic". The performances were good, and it seemed extremely well-made.
Stagecoach
Film Grade: B+
Notice a trend here? I liked this movie a lot, but it really didn't pick up until about the last 20/30 minutes. I thought the suspense was pretty good, and the acting acceptable. By the way, who was the stagecoach driver? He sounds very familiar somehow (Bugs Bunny cartoons, cameos on other shows, etc?).
Well, 67 down, 33 to go.
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Edwin Pereyra

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I was far from disappointed, but I couldn't help but feel that the movie could've been a lot more.
I know how you feel. I was chastised
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here for not liking this film. It was said to be an inspiration to some of the great directors of today.
Well, Scorcese also was inspired by The Red Shoes. But you don't see the same people who liked The Searchers also loving that movie.
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~Edwin
 

Robert Crawford

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Did Edwin just jabbed me in the ribs????? The driver in "Stagecoach" was Andy Devine a well-known character actor who appeared in many films as well as early television.
Crawdaddy
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