Aerial LR5's and sub, OR PMC MB2's and sub? (1 Viewer)

[John Doran]

anyone have any thoughts on this? i've done a search and i can't find any threads involving opinions on the quality of PMC speakers.

at any rate, i suppose the real question may be whether or not full-range speakers (the MB2's are 20hz-20khz) plus a sub is preferable (for mostly HT) to non-full-range speakers (LR5's are 40hz-20khz) and a sub.

any insight would be appreciated.

thanks,

- jd

 

[Scott Oliver]

I think it is a matter of taste in terms of frequency response desired.
The MB2's seem much more intriguing, but also possibly more difficult to deal with.
There was a recent review done in HiFi News & Record Reviews
MB2 Review - June 2002
Also Robbie Williams uses the MB2's.
Robbie Williams pic

 

[ChristopherS]

Hey John,

What dealer are you using that actually has any PMC speakers in stock to listen to? I am interested in the IB-1S line but my local PMC dealer does not carry any PMC speakers (but is willing to order them in for me a MSRP and no returns!) What a swell place to shop at. Not only can you not hear before you buy, they don't discount.

Thanks for your help.

Chris

 

[John Doran]

Christopher,

There are a bunch of dealers down here in and around Toronto that carry PMC - basically any of the stores that have Bryston products.

Unfortunately, none of them are chain-stores, so it won't help you in Quebec.

Also, the only PMC speaker I know they have in stok is the IB1-S...

- jd

 

[ChristopherS]

John,

Thank you for the very quick reply. The IB1-S speakers are exactly what I am looking for so that is OK with me. Did you get the MB2's you mentioned earlier? From the reviews they sound like wonderful speakers but are sadly out of my price range (plus I would also need to upgrade my amps to the 7B SST's).

I am going to have to make an appointment with Audio One and see what I think. I have used this dealer before but we did everything over the telephone (and my brother picked it all up for me). I have never actually been there so hopefully they have a proper listening room. I am also going to be listening to some B&W 802's this weekend.

Again thank you for your quick response.

Chris

 

[Rich X]

John,
I can't help you with the PMC speakers because I have never heard them, but I would not be concerned about the LR5's range.

I have done some extensive listenting to an LR5 set-up at a local dealer--with and without a sub--simply incredible in my opinion. The full system with 2 LR5's, the matching CC5 center, SR3 surrounds and TWO SW12 sub's is unbelievable.

If you are considering putting the Aerial sub with the LR5's, I think you will have one awesome system. The SW12 is the best sub I have ever heard.

 

[John Doran]

Christopher,

I'd be very interested to know what you think not only of the IB1-S's, but also of Audio One; should I spend my money there? I've dropped by a couple of times, and the guys always seem nice...

I haven't actually bought the speakers yet - I won't be in the market until late 2002/early 2003 (I want a relatively clean slate before I incur any further debt).


Rich,

Thanks for the feedback; I was set on the Aerials for a long time, and still may very well go with them. The only thing is, I'm getting Bryston amps, and the Aerial dealer over here doesn't carry Bryston; the only thing that might sway me away from the Aerials is if the Bryston guys (who also sell PMC) will give me a good deal if I buy everything from them. We'll see.

As for a sub, I'm waiting for the Contrabass Home Theater sub...If it's anything like their professional model (116dbl at 14hz or something like that), then I'm pretty sure it'll be the sub for me.

Thanks again,

- jd

 

[Rich X]

John,
I'm admitting my ingnorance here, but I've never heard of the Contrabass sub. Since it seems that we have similar taste in speakers, I would be interested in checking it out. Is it only available in Canada? Is there a site on the web?

Rich

 

[John Doran]

Rich,
It's a sub made by a company called ServoDrive Inc. which is an affiliate or subsidiary of Sound Physics Lab Inc. They have been making subs for professional uses to date, utilizing a proprietary technology (the "Servo Drive") that is very different from the traditional dynamic driver mechanism, and which allows the sub (A) to have an incredibly low distortion, even at the limits of its excursion, and (B) to play really, really, really loud.
Anyway. They've been working on a version of the sub for the home theater set, and are currently revamping their whole web-site, presumably (I hope) to accommodate the new product-line.
You can check out their progress here:
http://www.servodrive.com/
If you do a search either on this forum or over on AVS, you might be able to find some information.
You can also find posts on both forums by a guy named Mark Seaton, who is part of the company and at least some of the motive force behind ServoDrive's move into the home theater market. I've had some email correspondence with him, and can tell you he's a great guy.
Take care,
- jd

 

[Rich X]

Thanks John. I read a few of threads--looks interesting, but hard to find much in the way of specifics. Too bad their website isn't up yet.

I'm in the process of looking for subs (probably 2) for a theater/listening room that I am builing in my basement. I'm planning to put them into a custom-built cabinet enclosure, so the phycial shape and size are important. I have not made the final selection of my mains yet either, though I have narrowed down to Aerial LR5 or 7B, Revel Studio or F50, or B&W N802. The Revel B-15 and Aerial SW12 are probably too large to fit into the enclosure that I have planned, plus they look too good to hide in a cabinet. The Velo HGS line and Sunfires might be options, but I really question the price/performace trade offs with those two.

 

[John Doran]

oops - duplicate post...

sorry

 

[John Doran]

Rich,
If what Mark has told me about the ContraBass sub is (even only remotely) true, and if you're already prepared to spend the money it would take to acquire 2 Aerial SW12's, then I have no doubt at all that the ContraBass is the sub for you - at approximately the cost of 1 SW12, it will outperform, or at least equal the performance, of the 2 SW12's. As far as I understand.
Anyway, I would highly recommend that you email Mark Seaton himself; he is incredibly knowledgeable, personable, and honest (he reminds me of Michael Kelly from Aerial in that regard), and will be able to give you as good advice as you are likely to get anywhere.
You can use the email link from the website, or use this address, which is the one I have used in the past:
[email protected]
Let me know how it goes.
Regards,
- jd

 

[ChristopherS]

John,

Just an update:
The Concorde dealer is willing to set up for me a private listening session in which I can listen to and compare the PMC IB1-S's with B&W N802's. The equipment used will be Bryston 4B SST (I own the 4B ST) and the AVM-20 (which I also own). While this won't be in my own home it should be an accurate reflection on the sound differences between the two speakers.

The Dealer is actually moving faster than I am/was prepared for but I am going with the flow for now.

Chris

 

[John Doran]

Christopher,

That's good news. Forgive my ignorance, but what/where is Concorde?

I would be grateful if you would let me know what you thought of the comparison.

Happy listening.

Regards,

- jd

 

[Mark Seaton]

Hi John,
I haven't forgotten about you, but I have been busy trying to get things polished up and looking proper with our full range speakers while we wait for some final details to be worked out for the Theater Calibrated ContraBass and other interesting things in the pipeline.
To Rich, any anyone else reading along...
The ContraBass is certainly still available in the physical form it has maintained for nearly 13 years now. Any changes made in the near future will me mostly cosmetic in nature. Some dimensions might shift a little here or there, but the total volume will remain the same, as will the performance in general. The Theater Calibrated version carries a $5500 retail price, and down the road we do hope to offer internal amplification, but this is a few months off.
For those not familiar with the ContraBass, it is 37" tall, 22.5" side to side, and 19" face to face. The DC servomotor (not at all related to accellerometer based systems) drives the rotary to linear convertor which drives an opposing pair of 15" cones(one per face). Below each cone is an 18" passive radiator. The system has a -3dB point of 16Hz, a sensitivity of 92dB @1W/1M, and can produce 114dB @1m outdoors at 16Hz with 250W. Above ~22Hz, the dynamic headroom is roughly 6dB greater. Even though it has been around for quite a while, I can still say that I know of no other subwoofer sold which can deliver such low frequencies in a comparable size package with such little power, compression, and distortion. Well regarded designers have replaced Wilson XS subwoofers one-for-one with a ContraBass in some of their top designs. For anyone concealing their subwoofer in some manner, the classic enclosure will work just fine. I can give more details about building in the sub.
The old spec sheets will be again available on line in a week or so in some form, and we will be slowly rebuilding the website. As it was, the website was more of an outdated eyesore than it was help. If anyone would like the PDF of the ContraBass, I can certainly e-mail it.
John was close with the e-mail above, but the proper e-mail to reach me at is [email protected].

 

[Mark Seaton]

One more link with some good info at Audio Asylum from our designer Tom Danley...
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/HU...ges/31927.html

 

[John Doran]

Mark,

Thanks for taking the time to weigh-in.

Incidentally, if you're back here again and feel so inclined, I'd be grateful if you could you reveal the identity of that sub you had that was capable of useful db at 3hz or 5hz or whatever it was...

Take care of yourself,

- jd

 

[Mark Seaton]

Incidentally, if you're back here again and feel so inclined, I'd be grateful if you could you reveal the identity of that sub you had that was capable of useful db at 3hz or 5hz or whatever it was...

Good memory John,

That was a prototype unit I have around here. Basically a dual 18", sealed, servomotor driven system. In an average sized room, we measured flat response to ~5Hz. Placed outdoors the response of this prototype was about -10dB at 12Hz. The gain function of most rooms compliment this nicely, much like a car sub is designed to compliment the gain function of the small cabin. For the larger rooms, a ContraBass will provide flatter in room response, or using multiples of these would provide slightly better results with some modest EQ.

Due to its smaller size, it takes a significant hit in efficiency from a ContraBass, which puts it in the realm of most subwoofers, but with much more low end efficiency and lower power compression with the DC Servomotor. This product has drawn out a good deal as we have been quite busy with our full range products, and Tom Danley and I decided to step up the headroom some, along with making it less failure prone. Believe me, lead times suck on odd ball parts! We are presently developing pre production units, so I would expect a real availability time of Oct. to Dec. depending on how things progress.

A ContraBass will still have a significant edge in peak output due to its efficiency and handling of 2000W peaks, but the continuous output will be only slightly off between the two albeit requiring 3-4x the power in the new one. Per volume the newer dual 18" will be a killer, but per watt, per dollar, a ContraBass is damn hard to beat.

Regards,

 

[John Doran]

Mark,

Wow. I anxiously await the new and improved ServoDrive web-site with all the latest info...

I can't wait to get a ContraBass into my house.

Thanks again, Mark.

Regards,

- jd

 

[Rich X]

Mark,
Thanks for the info. I would like a copy of that PDF file on the ContraBass. I'll send you an e-mail.

Whatever sub(s) I end up with will need to fit into an enclosure. I am still at the stage where the enclosure is being designed so I can make changes within limits to accomodate different sized subs. The dimensions that you describe for the ContraBass are on the outer edges of those limits, but not impossible. I would appreciate any thoughts you have on building in the sub.