Adire Sadhara

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Andrew S, Jul 21, 2003.

  1. Andrew S

    Andrew S Stunt Coordinator

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    ... still a driver that's out of my pricerange, but has anyone been anticipating this or have any future plans involving this new driver. Just curious.
    Adire Sadhara
    (this is the Canadian Adire dealer by the way, so that's 509 Canadian)
    - Andrew
     
  2. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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  3. ya...I too am done with most 12's [​IMG] give me a 15 "er or 18 when I get a place of my own!
     
  4. Dan Wesnor

    Dan Wesnor Second Unit

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    Sometimes I wonder how much money Adire has to charge before they start putting rubber surrounds on their drivers. This, what, $300-400 US? I've seen $70 US 12" woofers that have rubber surrounds.
     
  5. Allen Ross

    Allen Ross Supporting Actor

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    but do they have 27mm of Xmax?

    thought not
     
  6. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

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    Ive been waiting to see something of the Sadhara since I first saw it at CES. I was very impressed with the performance. The only thing that would discourage me from getting this driver is the limited wiring options and low efficiency.

    Otherwise, I like it! [​IMG] [​IMG]


    BTW - I am more of a 15 inch guy myself. [​IMG]
     
  7. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Jack didn't you have the BP 1803,or have you sold it?
    Sorry,but I'm not up to date of your current count of woofs.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Dan Wesnor

    Dan Wesnor Second Unit

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    My point being, it only costs a few bucks to put a rubber surround on a speaker. Foam vs. rubber has nothing to do with Xmax. In fact, I would guess than foam introduces more non-linearity to the driver because it tends to be stiffer.

    And synthetic rubber lasts a lot longer than foam.

    To most DIY'ers, a foam surround is the most visible sign that the designer wasn't willing to spend any money making a good driver.
     
  9. DanWiggins

    DanWiggins Second Unit

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    Actually, foam tends to be much more linear with temperature, excursion, and pressure than rubber.

    Foam also is considerably more compliant than rubber, meaning that - for a given thickness - you can have a softer surround. You need thickness to avoid suckback issues in small sealed boxes (surround reversal from large pressure differentials), and rubber would be excessively stiff.

    Also, I prefer to have a very compliant surround and put all the suspension stiffness in the spider. The spider tends to be much closer to the center of intertia of the moving mass, as opposed to the surround. The closer the suspension is to the center of intertia the less issues with rocking. Stiff surrounds actually create more problems from a rocking standpoint than soft surrounds.

    It is true that foam surrounds can deteriorate after 10+ years or so (we have Shivas out there that are 5+ years old, and are still going strong. Even one down in Costa Rica for the last 4 years). However, rubber surrounds tend to stiffen as they age, and while they will not fall apart, they will change compliance to such a degree that the fundamental capabilities of the driver significantly change.

    Overall, I believe foam surrounds to have more positives than negatives, so that's what we chose to use.

    Dan Wiggins
    Adire Audio
     
  10. Dan Wesnor

    Dan Wesnor Second Unit

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  11. DanWiggins

    DanWiggins Second Unit

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    I guess I wasn't clear enough - please accept my apologies, I'll try again here...

    Suckback is a definite concern, especially with high excursion drivers in small cabinets (sealed or vented). There's only two ways to avoid suckback:

    1. Thick surround
    2. Stiff surround material

    The drawback to a stiff surround material is greater rocking. When you move more of the system compliance away from the center of inertia/center of gravity, you end up with more rocking as the driver operates. This, in turn, forces you to even more suspension stiffness to overcome, as well as wider (lossier) gaps.

    Now, if you can use a thicker material that is still quite soft, then you let the geometry of the surround solve the whole suckback issue. You can keep most of the suspension stiffness in the spider (near the center of inertia), so you can have an overall softer suspension, as well as tighter gaps for more flux.

    For a given thickness of material, you can only get your rubber surround so soft; foams can be up to 5X as soft as rubber, for a given thickness. This is a pretty significant advantage when all is consider.

    Additionally, foam surrounds really don't save you much at all over rubber surrounds, in terms of cost. It's literally pennies per surround, meaning a savings of perhaps $10 on a run of 100 units. If you're that interested in saving money, then drop the painted baskets or motors, magnet boots, or stamped dustcaps - each of those are easily 20-50X the cost increment as compared to the rubber or foam surround selection.

    Overall, I think our use of a foam surround wasn't a "sign that the designer wasn't willing to spend any money making a good driver"; rather, it was a sign that the driver designer understood the tradeoffs inherent in high excursion drivers used in smaller boxes, and chose appropriately.

    Dan Wiggins
    Adire Audio
     
  12. Brian Knauss

    Brian Knauss Stunt Coordinator

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    Sheesh Dan, do you just spend your days viewing various audio forums?? I see your name popping up everywhere I go! haha
     
  13. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    av12 27mm x max and around under 200 how much beter would the new saraha be? and for 200 you can get a av15 and for the same price you can get 2 and blow the doors off the 12. when i uprrade to a front projector i think i will upgrade to 4 av15 and have a wall of sub
     
  14. Dan Wesnor

    Dan Wesnor Second Unit

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    Thanks, Dan.

    I know that some of your foam surround drivers aren't low-quality, I was just saying that that was the general opinion or foam surround drivers.
     

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